Is f(x) as the 100th Decimal Place Digit a Function?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether the function f(x), defined as the nth decimal place digit of a real number x (specifically the 100th decimal place), qualifies as a function in the mathematical sense. Participants explore its properties, including continuity and differentiability, while considering implications of decimal representation and ambiguity in values.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that f(x) is not well-defined due to the existence of numbers with two decimal representations, such as 0.999... and 1.000..., leading to ambiguity in the function's output.
  • Others argue that f(x) can be defined consistently if a specific representation is chosen, suggesting that it could be similar to the indicator function of the Cantor set.
  • There is a discussion about whether f(x) can be continuous, with some suggesting it behaves like a step function and is continuous over open intervals, while others assert it is not continuous over all of R.
  • One participant notes that any continuous function taking integer values must be constant on each connected component of its domain.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definition of f(x), with examples provided to illustrate how it operates on specific numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether f(x) is a well-defined function. There are competing views regarding its continuity and the implications of decimal representation ambiguity.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the choice of decimal representation and the unresolved nature of the function's continuity across its entire domain.

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I came across this in a book I am reading.

Let f(x) be equal to the nth decimal place digit of x (for our consideration let's say the 100th).

Is this a function? Is there any special name for it, or is it famous?

Is it continuous? Is it differentiable?
 
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f is a function on R if f(x) is defined for all real x. For numbers with two decimal representations, such as 0.999... = 1.000..., you'll have to pick one representation. So f(1) = 0 or f(1) = 9 as it can't be both.

I don't know about the function's name/fame.

The range is {0, 1, ..., 9}. Can f be continuous with this range?
 
Can you clarify that? Do you mean something along the lines of:

f(x) = 4th decimal place;

f(5,000) = 5 ; f(6,000) = 6 ; f(17,243) = 7 ?
 
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No I think he meant e.g. f(123.45678) = 7.
 
I suppose this is just a step function, continuous on some open interval. If we took the first digit, it would be the usual step function, but if we take the second digit, we are reducing the continuous length by a factor of 10--and so forth. But it is still continuous over some interval, and there it would be differential with value 0.
 
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I see now that it is not continuous, -- over all of R, -- but yes over some open intervals..

"f is a function on R if f(x) is defined for all real x. For numbers with two decimal representations, such as 0.999... = 1.000..., you'll have to pick one representation. So f(1) = 0 or f(1) = 9 as it can't be both."

Sure pick the min possible.

"No I think he meant e.g. f(123.45678) = 7."

Yes that's right sorry for the ambiguity.

"suppose this is just a step function, continuous on some open interval. If we took the first digit, it would be the usual step function, but if we take the second digit, we are reducing the continuous length by a factor of 10--and so forth. But it is still continuous over some interval, and there it would be differential with value 0."

Yes I see that now, cool, thanks!
 
Any continuous function that takes integer values is constant on each connected component of its domain.
 
I don't think such a function can be well-defined. For example it is well known that 1.0000000... = 0.9999999... Here f(x) gives different values for the same x.

Edit: Sorry I see this was already discussed above.
 
nicksauce said:
I don't think such a function can be well-defined. For example it is well known that 1.0000000... = 0.9999999... Here f(x) gives different values for the same x.

Edit: Sorry I see this was already discussed above.
It can be well-defined, provided that you define it consistently in cases of ambiguity. The indicator function of the Cantor set is similar.
 

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