Is Fire or Electricity Considered a State of Matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether fire and electricity can be classified as states of matter. Participants explore the nature of fire, its composition, and the characteristics of electricity in relation to states of matter.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that fire is a plasma, while electricity is described as the motion of electrons, suggesting it does not qualify as a state of matter.
  • One participant elaborates that fire consists mostly of neutral gas molecules, with luminescent particles suspended within it, and that a flame contains a mixture of stable and reactive gas-phase species.
  • Another participant notes that fire can be considered just gas that is extremely hot, and discusses the transition from gas to plasma based on temperature and its interaction with light and magnetism.
  • There is mention of various recognized phases of matter, including solids, liquids, gases, plasmas, and Bose-Einstein condensates, indicating a broader context for understanding states of matter.
  • A theoretical description of electricity is presented, likening it to a gas of particles moving through an idealized medium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether fire and electricity can be classified as states of matter, with no consensus reached on the matter.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the definitions and characteristics of fire and electricity, but there are unresolved aspects regarding the classification of these phenomena as states of matter.

ubergewehr273
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Is there any state of matter for fire or electricity ?
If yes, then what is the state of matter ?
 
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Fire is a plasma, and electricity is the motion of electrons, it's not a "state".
 
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Matterwave said:
Fire is a plasma, and electricity is the motion of electrons, it's not a "state".

"Fire" is mostly neutral gas molecules, the fire in a fireplace is gas with suspended luminescent particles. A flame on a gas stove is a mixture of stable and reactive gas-phase species (the blue color comes from emission from C2 and CH molecules). Most of the components of a flame are neutral species. There are some ionized species, but these are in very low concentration.
 
For the most part, fire is is just gas that's red-hot.
If you get a gas really really incredibly hot it will turn into a plasma. You can tell the difference depending on how it reacts to light and magnetism. (a plasma is electrically conducting, and so is opaque, though being red hot anyway, this would be hard to test by trying to look through it (a laser might be useful, though)). You can bend plasma with magnetic fields, too.

There are many states of matter, but there are a few well recognized phases of matter.

There's the usual solid, liquid, and gas
But there's also (on the hot end), ordinary plasmas (when electrons are no longer bound to nuclei), and quark-gluon plasmas (when protons, neutrons, and their constituents are no longer bound together as nuclei)
On the cold end, there are Bose-Einstein condensates. These are gases so cold that the individual atoms all share the same ground state, and act as though they are described by one wavefunction like a giant atom.

As far as electricity goes, you can describe it at least theoretically as a gas of particles moving through an idealized African rainstick.
 
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