Is Fire Considered Matter and What State Does It Belong To?

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    Fire Matter
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether fire is considered matter and, if so, what state of matter it belongs to. Participants explore various definitions and characteristics of fire, examining its nature as a process versus a substance, and the implications of categorizing it within the established states of matter.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that fire is not matter, describing it as a chemical process rather than a substance.
  • Others propose that fire can be considered a mixture of solids, gases, and possibly liquids, depending on the context, such as in a coal fire.
  • A participant claims that hydrogen fire is plasma, suggesting that fire can exist in different states depending on its composition.
  • There is a suggestion that the definition of fire needs clarification, as it may encompass flames, smoke, and the burning process itself.
  • One participant emphasizes that matter is defined as anything that takes up space and has mass, prompting a re-evaluation of what components of fire might be considered matter.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about popular understandings of scientific concepts, indicating that commonly held beliefs about fire may be flawed.
  • Several participants note that fire involves a rapid chemical reaction, which complicates its classification as matter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether fire is matter. There are multiple competing views regarding its classification, with some asserting it is not matter and others arguing in favor of its classification as matter.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of defining fire and its components, as well as the challenges in categorizing phenomena that may not fit neatly into established scientific definitions.

Dremmer
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And if so, what state of matter is it?
 
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A coal fire is a mixture of solids and gases - with possibly some 'liquid' if there happens to be any melting non-specific 'gunge' in the hot coal. The word "fire" refers more to a process than a substance.
Science is really above these things, though. There is little point in trying to 'categorise' everything in the world. The 'three states of matter' (plus Plasma) are very coarse categories and there are many many common substances that fall into more than one.
We have the same problem if we want to categorise life forms, electromagnetic waves, signals and many others. Life's too short and it doesn't help at all with our understanding - quite the reverse, in fact, I think.
 
Hydrogen fire is plasma.
 
and gas!
 
Is fire matter?
No, it is not.
 
It doesn't behave like typical matter, which makes some people believe that it is not actually matter.
 
Dremmer said:
It doesn't behave like typical matter, which makes some people believe that it is not actually matter.

Huh? Why are you asking the question if you're not going to listen to the answers?

Fire is not matter; it's a chemical process. Rusting is not matter either, nor is freezing.
There's nothing in a fire that was not there before, and nothing left after a fire that wasn't there before that.
 
First of all, define precisely what you mean by "fire". Just flame? Process? Everything that we see when looking at fire, that is something that burns, flames and smoke?
 
I think that when most people think of fire, they think of the flames.
 
  • #10
"Most people" don't have very well informed opinions, in general, about Science so a lot of popularly held views of Science are faulty.
e.g. "Current takes the easiest route"
"Nature abhors a vacuum"
"Warm air can hold a lot of water"
etc.
etc.
Isn't the point of this Forum to get things as right as possible?
 
  • #11
From my understanding, matter is anything that takes up space and has mass. So rather than asking "if fire is matter," you should probably ask yourself, "what parts of fire make up matter?"*

* Is Fire Matter?. (n.d.). NEWTON/ANL Home Page. Retrieved November 25, 2010, from http://www.Newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci
 
  • #12
Dead link (at least for me), I'm afraid.
 
  • #13
sophiecentaur said:
Dead link (at least for me), I'm afraid.

I'm sorry, it was working for me not too long ago, but it was just part of my citation.
 
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  • #15
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