Is Gravity Shielding Possible on the Moon and Mars?

[H.M. Murdock]

The reason I bring this up is that I feel we should colonize space itself, not planets and moons. It seems a waste to pay the price to escape gravity only to run back into the barn.

It d be better to have a sort of colony in Mars because a problem with having some sort of colony right in space is the fact that even the smallest rock out there could shatter a ship. On Earth that dosetn happen because we have our atmosphere, but in outher space it is a difference issue.
I guess that we must get more tecnology, theoricaly there may exist some stuff like a bubble of a repulsive gravity or soemthign like that that could protect the spaceship.
Thre are also theoretical ways to bend spacetime in order to make faster than light travels. but for now that is more science fiction than reality for us.
Also chemistry should improve more in order to make life in space more confortable.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I have never thought about but, how would industry function in an enclosed environment?

You can find some well thought-out ideas here:

http://www.ssi.org"

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

It d be better to have a sort of colony in Mars because a problem with having some sort of colony right in space is the fact that even the smallest rock out there could shatter a ship. On Earth that dosetn happen because we have our atmosphere, but in outher space it is a difference issue.

All you need is a bulky envelope.

Edit. Hey wait a minute. What planet besides Earth has a suitable atmosphere?

 

[George Jones]

Darn, no commas omitted accidentally from the title.

I thought Hawking was going to the Moon and Mars.

 

[wolram]

You can find some well thought-out ideas here:

http://www.ssi.org"

For producing energy, i did not see anything about producing all the necessities for human life, apart from food and water we need clothes and means to make things that wear out,
how would you get rid of the heat generated?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

For producing energy, i did not see anything about producing all the necessities for human life, apart from food and water we need clothes and means to make things that wear out,
how would you get rid of the heat generated?

I read Professor O'Neill's book about 30 years ago and I don't remember the details. However I do remember that he spent a great deal of attention to that question because it is a very sticky one. It is not just heat from industrial production, but from daily living even if production took place in factories away from living quarters. I would be very surprised to find that he forgot to include in in the website. I don't have time to look now but when I get home I will try to find it. In the meantime, peruse the site, it is not junk. Perhaps you or someone else will have the answer before I get home.

 

[tribdog]

Muscle loss and bone loss are issues for tourists. Are they also issues for colonists?

depends on how much bone loss you have ameoba man.

 

[LightbulbSun]

No question there needs to be a small community of miners on moons and planets. But their purpose should be nothing more than to shoot material up to the space colony. There is something called a mass driver that can be used for the purpose. I see the entire operation automated to the point that trips to the Moon from the space colony would be little more common than trips to the ISS from Earth are now.


The way I see it, there would be a building up phase in which accomodations are made for everyone to move to the colony. Earth would be abandoned except for mining activities. In other words, adding modules might be difficult, but would be a constant ongoing activity. Once everyone was moved off the Earth, and up to the colony, further increases in size could be done on a more leisurely basis. Anyway, during the building up phase, if you are waiting for an apartment to become available in the colony, I see nothing gained by going to the moon and waiting there. You would have to be lifted twice. Wait your turn here on the Earth.

The advantage of space is not just escaping lunar dust. You escape gravity. That's the leading cause of death among falling-Americans.

Why get everyone off of Earth though and move to an even smaller planet than Earth, such as Mars? I would think the purpose of colonizing Mars is to send a portion of the Earth's population over there and minimize the overpopulation issue we have.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I read Professor O'Neill's book about 30 years ago and I don't remember the details. However I do remember that he spent a great deal of attention to that question because it is a very sticky one. It is not just heat from industrial production, but from daily living even if production took place in factories away from living quarters. I would be very surprised to find that he forgot to include in in the website. I don't have time to look now but when I get home I will try to find it. In the meantime, peruse the site, it is not junk. Perhaps you or someone else will have the answer before I get home.

I have to admit I couldn't find anything on that site on cooling. I did find this though:
http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=APCPCS000813000001000074000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes"

It implies that the problem is even more severe on the surface of Mars and the Moon that it is in space.

However, the space environment is a vacuum environment, typically 10–8 Torr pressure, therefore in proposed missions to the lunar surface, power plants would have to rely on radiative cooling to remove waste heat. Also, the Martian surface has a very tenuous atmosphere (e.g. ~5 Torr CO2), therefore, the main heat transfer method on the Martian surface is also radiative. Because of the lack of atmosphere on the Moon and the tenuous atmosphere on Mars, surface power systems on both the Lunar and Martian surface must rely heavily on radiative heat transfer. Because of the large temperature swings on both the lunar and the Martian surfaces, trying to radiate heat is inefficient. In order to increase power system efficiency, an effort is underway to test various combinations of materials with high emissivities to demonstrate their ability to survive these degrading atmospheres to maintain a constant radiator temperature improving surface power plant efficiency.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

depends on how much bone loss you have ameoba man.

Not me, my descendants.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Why get everyone off of Earth though and move to an even smaller planet than Earth, such as Mars? I would think the purpose of colonizing Mars is to send a portion of the Earth's population over there and minimize the overpopulation issue we have.

There is almost no limit to the size of space colonies. Colonists will look down on anyone choosing to live in the degrading conditions of gravity. Literally

 

[wolram]

Seems to me we have a long way to go before we can start even putting pencil to paper,
science fiction is way ahead of us.

 

[H.M. Murdock]

All you need is a bulky envelope.

Edit. Hey wait a minute. What planet besides Earth has a suitable atmosphere?

Mars has a weak atmosphere in comparison with the one of the earth, but I think it is strong enought to avoid small rocks from space to fall there otherwise the place would eb full of craters and death just like on the Moon.
The other issue is the gama rays, they are everywhere in space. So in order to thrive there people will need some sort of shield against all that.

 

[wolram]

This is one idea but as they say power requirements could kill the idea.

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/lunarshield_techwed_050112.html

A team of researchers is looking to the moon to develop the tools future astronauts may need to ward off potentially life-threatening levels of space radiation.

Currently mid-way through their NASA-funded study, the researchers are working to determine whether a set of electrically charged shield spheres atop 40-meter masts could deflect radiation from a populated moonbase.

If it proves possible, such a radiation-proof screen - called an electrostatic shield - could protect astronauts from the long-lasting, and possibly fatal, radiation hazards of spaceflight beyond the Earth's magnetic field.

"The electrostatic radiation shield is a pretty simple idea," said the study's co-principal investigator John Lane, an applications scientist with ASRC Aerospace Corp. at Kennedy Space Center (KSC). "We're concerned about charged particle radiation."

That radiation, high-energy protons and electrons spewed out by the Sun during massive solar storms or traversing the universe as galactic cosmic rays (GCRs), are the main hazard targeted by Lane, his colleagues. ASRC researcher Charles Buhler is leading the study, which is a Phase 1 project funded by the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts (NIAC).

 

[LightbulbSun]

There is almost no limit to the size of space colonies. Colonists will look down on anyone choosing to live in the degrading conditions of gravity. Literally

Gravity is better.

 

[B. Elliott]

Like the last link mentioned, lunar regolith would be the best bet for a quick, easily made defense against radiation. It would also fill another role... protection from micrometeroid impacts. You can't beat utilizing an asset that's already there, costs nothing, needs no power, and is plentiful. The only thing that would be required is for holes to be dug prior to the placement and insertion of lightweight, habitable modules which would then be covered with more regolith. All of this could be done by robots before people even set foot on the moon again.

 

[DaveC426913]

Would these people still be classed as human or a subspecies?

It entirely dpends upon whether they can still interbreed. That's the definition of species.

 

[B. Elliott]

One other thing, I got halfway through reading the wikipedia entry that wolram posted when the extreme daytime/nighttime temperature variations sparked an idea. It stated that it varies from 107-123°C in the daytime and down to −153°C at night. From the get-go it sounds like that would be an awesome application for a type of heat pump. The wikipedia entry also stated that the underground temperature (doesn't mention depth) stays at an approximate 24°C. If that is true, would that not be another viable application for a heat pump? ie; During the day there would be approximately an 86° difference for a pump to work with, and during the night time there would be a difference of about 129°.

 

[wolram]

Mining and manufacture on the Moon.

http://aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov/HAS/cirr/em/6/6.cfm
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Sounds like a good idea to me B. Elliot.

 

[H.M. Murdock]

There is almost no limit to the size of space colonies. Colonists will look down on anyone choosing to live in the degrading conditions of gravity. Literally

Actualy I saw on Ufo files that suposedly ufos are inmune to any variation on the effects of gravity that is why they can travel in ways n speeds that would be imposible for men.
there may be some sort of force that would repel gravity, there woldnt be the need for seat belts while accelerating on spaceships n stuff, gravity could just remain constant.

I don't know much about the current research that scientists are making about anti gravity but I guess the Hutshinsons effect may be a way to achive that tecnology if not I heard that superstrings and supergravity predict the existens of a 5th very weak force in nature, I was told that this force could make anitmatter to behave as antigravity although I am not sure about it. I guess the quest for a repeling force of gravity should be a key issue in order to have colonies in space.

 

[wolram]

I doubt gravity will be over come any time soon H.M. Murdock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_shielding

Gravity shielding is the process of shielding an object from the full influence of a gravitational field. Such processes have the effect of reducing the weight of an object. According to standard physics any form of gravitational shielding is a violation of the equivalence principle and therefore is inconsistent with general relativity.[1]

 

[H.M. Murdock]

I doubt gravity will be over come any time soon H.M. Murdock.

Gravity shielding is the process of shielding an object from the full influence of a gravitational field. Such processes have the effect of reducing the weight of an object. According to standard physics any form of gravitational shielding is a violation of the equivalence principle and therefore is inconsistent with general relativity.[1]

I agree, although we have the theory of GR still gravity is a very puzzling force. I guess we won't be able to overcome gravity any time soon.