Is infinity truly infinite if it has something else in it?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of infinity, particularly whether an infinite quantity can still be considered infinite if it contains other elements, such as rocks in an infinite volume of water. The scope includes philosophical and mathematical considerations of infinity, as well as implications in cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of "truly infinite" and suggests that infinite regions can have boundaries, implying that an infinite volume minus a finite volume remains infinite.
  • Another participant argues that a subset of an infinite set can also be infinite, using the example of odd numbers being infinite despite the removal of even numbers from the natural numbers.
  • A participant reflects on the implications of using the term "infinite volume of water," indicating that it does not imply water exists everywhere.
  • One participant posits that if infinity is a mathematical concept, then including rocks within an infinite volume suggests that all such rocks must already be accounted for within that infinite context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of infinity and its implications, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved definitions regarding "truly infinite" and the implications of subsets within infinite sets. The discussion also touches on the philosophical aspects of infinity in relation to physical reality.

ddjj77
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Is infinity truly infinite if it has something else in it?
Put differently, say there's an infinite volume of water that has some rocks in it, is the volume of water truly infinite? Though there's a place where there's no water?
 
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Yes, a subset of an infinite set can also be infinite. For example, there is an infinite number of odd numbers even though you have to remove another infinite set (the even numbers) from the natural numbers to get the odd numbers. This leads to things such as Hilbert's hotel.
 
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What does "truly infinite" mean?

Certainly you can have infinite regions with boundaries - an infinite volume minus a finite volume is still infinite. I presume, since you're posting this in cosmology, that you're thinking of space or spacetime. This doesn't have any holes in it anyway, so far as we are aware.
 
Then when I use the term "infinite volume of water", this shouldn't mean there's water everywhere. Got it.
 
ddjj77 said:
Is infinity truly infinite if it has something else in it?
Put differently, say there's an infinite volume of water that has some rocks in it, is the volume of water truly infinite? Though there's a place where there's no water?
Infinity is a mathematical concept. If you can put rocks in it, you speak about something which exists within the universe, and then - in case it should be infinite - all rocks are already in it.
 
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