Is it difficult to find jobs for physics graduates in today's job market?

[Zandorian]

Well, I want to start my own company one day. I don't like the idea of "working" for other people all my life. Although the things I have read in this thread make me want to get a degree in some type of engineering as well as a ph.d in physics just for backup.

 

[GTdan]

sounds great. How exactly does getting skills work? Will I just be taking some special classes and then get a certificate or something?

 

[JohnDubYa]

A Ph.D. in physics as a backup? That is a mighty rough backup.

A lot of companies provide certification. There is BrainBench (although it is not a very rigorous certification), A+, CIW, and so on. You typically take a course or two and pass the certification exams. A lot of them you can do online.


CIW is nice in that they provide multimedia certication as well, which includes Web development, e-commerce, and so on. http://www.ciwcertified.com.

Also check out the online journal http://www.certmag.com/. It is the pre-eminent certification journal available.

 

[alexepascual]

GTdan,
I think JohnDubYa is too optimistic. His opinion maybe based on his own experience when he graduated. The thing is, you can't extrapolate from a few years ago to the present. We are presently going through a rough times when it comes to jobs in science and technology. The situation may improve in a few years, but besides the cyclic changes, there are also long term changes (globalization and a migration of jobs from the US to India and China)
The suggestion that taking electronics and networking courses at the same time you get your degree in physics makes some sense. This will give you more practical skills. But I believe that while this strategy would have worked wonders a few years ago, I doubt today would guarantee you a job. But if you like physics enough that you whant to take this major regardless, I guess taking some computing/engineering courses will improve your prospects.
The thing is, when it comes to these skills JohnDubYa mentions, companies often look for a networking specialist, a software engineer, an electrical engineer, etc. But you see less frequently requests for someone who can do all of the above. Medium-size to large companies look for people who can do one thing and can show experience doing that one thing. By doing one thing I mean having one degree, and experience in a specialty that relates to that degree. Example: someone with a degree in electronics engineering, and 3 years experience in RF. or in embedded circuits design and programming.
Let's say then you decide to study computer science. Typically it would have been easier for someone with a degree in computer science to get a job after graduation than for someone with a degree in physics. But I know this young guy who got his degree in computer science and he can't get a job.
The probability of your getting a job quickly after graduation may depend on where you live or if you are willing to relocate.
In today's job market, it is not sufficient to say that you have taken courses in this or that, most companies are asking for experience. This tends to be like a vicious cycle. Where can you get the experience if you can't get a job in the first place?
Other posts mention that physics puts you ahead of the pack. I like physics and I'll be pursuing a master's degree in physics. But I think that when it comes to jobs, physics does not give you an advantage, unless you double major in engineering. But in that case it is your engineering degree that is going to get you the job.
$50,000 entry level is also too optimistic, unless you have connections. I think in today's market $35,000 - $40,000 is more realistic. But I think there is pressure for entry-level salaries in science-enginering to get even lower in the future.
If you want to understand better what is going on in the job market, I suggest you look at jobs in the classsified section of the sunday newspaper.
This can also give you a feel for how hot or cold the job market is. Look at "engineers" (no physicist entries exist though).
Another idea: start doing a search on the web for jobs that require a physics degree, as if you had already graduated and were looking for a job.
You can also do a serach in google and put: physics + BS + employment
There are some sites that cater to science, but most of the jobs posted in these sites require masters or phds.
Don't get your expectations too high. If you do you may get dissapointed later. If your love for physics is not really strong, then I would suggest you change majors to one of the engineering disciplines.

 

[GTdan]

Well, I have been checking many sites and every estimate I get is around $50,000 salary. Heck, my dad supports a family of 5 with a house and 4 cars and he gets under $40,000 so maybe that wouldn't bother me too much. I checked my local newspaper and there a number of engineering jobs there (and my city is really small compared to most). I also checked here just now: http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/states/state.htm

I am definitely willing to relocate. Probably not to far off places but still willing to move around a lot. I am used to it because I am a "military brat." I expect I may have to skimp around for enough experience to get a better job at first but I might be able to get around that with internships and the like. I really love physics and I am more hyped about it than engineering.

 

[alexepascual]

GTDan,
I was just affraid you might be making decisions based on too high expectations. But now that you made clear that it wouldn't be a problem for you to start at a lower salary and you are willing to relocate, I think you might do well. I wish you good luck.
About the information on the AIP site. Information from AIP is usually out of date and I would also doubt about the validity of their statistics. You might also want to take into consideration that they have a vested interest in making the employment outlook appear rosy for physics mayors.
Good luck again and study hard,

 

[fizixx]

Zapper...

Interesting posts indeed. Unfortunately I don't have time to write, but my curiosity was great enough to ask you about the website that you run? I would be interedted in the articles you mentioned that are there; 'so you want to be a physicist'. I am a physicist...industrial, in optics, but am always interested in what is going on and what other oportunities may lay ahead.

Thanks, and I would also like to come back and contribute to the original author of this post, as I think it is very topical and possibly a more ubiquitous issue than what some/many folks think.

Happy holidays everyone...
Kindly,
fiz~

 

[ZapperZ]

Zapper...

Interesting posts indeed. Unfortunately I don't have time to write, but my curiosity was great enough to ask you about the website that you run? I would be interedted in the articles you mentioned that are there; 'so you want to be a physicist'. I am a physicist...industrial, in optics, but am always interested in what is going on and what other oportunities may lay ahead.

Thanks, and I would also like to come back and contribute to the original author of this post, as I think it is very topical and possibly a more ubiquitous issue than what some/many folks think.

Happy holidays everyone...
Kindly,
fiz~

Obviously, this is the one thread that didn't get move the the new section Academic Help section of PF.

I have reposted that series of essays into my journal section on here. So you are welcome to check it out. I also welcome any feedback that you have regarding the essay so far, especially on areas which you think I have missed or did not emphasize enough. I'm hoping to rewrite the entire essay into something more cohesive when I have completed the final part. So any suggestions are certainly appreciated.

Zz.

 

[ramesh512]

Hi, friends and off-course Alexe!

I like these write-ups about "Jobs for Physics Graduates".
Many wrote this, many that and so on...

Everyone of us must found one thing that the Physics is the base of every-science in the universe, but obviously not the specific as that of Chemistry/Pharmacy/Electronics/Mech Or even Commerce.

It's also true that it is Physics degree next to Engg.

Many of my classmates gone to CS, CA, BA, masterings as everyone of us can not become a 'Scientist'. It is very clear that you continue revising with Physics for becoming a Professor if not scientist.

So, don't bother, apply your analytical-skills and perception and go on..

 

[jtbell]

I suggest that you (and anybody else who is tempted to post) look at the dates on the preceding posts in this thread.

 

[Kal-El]

Even though this tread is very old, I must say, it has opened my eyes about attaining a physics undergrad degree... The only way around these sad factors for physics majors is to have a dual degree with something close to physics (ie; engineering) and have experience form different fields like Zapper pointed out...

 

[nomad19095]

I haven't responded to this string till now, since I was curious on how people react or respond to this, especially from "career physicst", if there was any. Since I fall into that category, I think it is only fair that I give a bit of my perpective on it.

The issue of becoming a physicist is something that I have a bit of an interest in. I started writing a series of article titled "So You Want To Be A Physicist" for a website that I run, mainly as a record on all the things that I WISH someone would have told me while I was pursuing my degree. No doubt that there were a lot of things that would have made my academic pursuit a bit easier, or less mysterious, had I known a bunch of things along the way.

Part of the problem here is that a lot of incoming undergraduate physics majors have rather "lofty" ideas of what physics is, and what a physicist does. I lost count on how many undergradute physics majors I encouter lately who are enamoured by "String Theory" and "Quantum Gravity", etc., and want to "major" in them. Now, there's nothing wrong with those (crossing fingers), but to think that those are the only exciting areas of physics is taking a very jaundice view of what physics is (they're always surprised when I tell them that the majority of practicing physicists are in the field of condensed matter/material science).

Now at some point, the "employability" of these physics graduates would come into play - like 6 months before graduation. I can relay an anecdote that I personally encounter. Back in the early 90's, during one of the economic slowdowns in the US, there were stories of theoretical physics Ph.D's having to abandon their field and go into other areas for employment, even a story of one ph.d having to drive a bus to make a living. At the same time, I personally know of at least 2 ph.d candidates in the field of Medical Physics and 3 from condensed matter who, even before they finished defending their ph.d theses, were already getting ~$70,000 job offers from various companies. ($70,000 back in the early 90's was a LOT of money, especially for fresh graduates). What was the difference between them and those ph.d's who couldn't find jobs? Their EXPERTISE!

Those people were either in a high demand area (Medical Physics), or they were experimentalists who possessed SKILLS (thin film fabrication and characterizations) that not only are marketable for an academic track career, but also in so many other industrial sectors. Yet, when we asked the new incoming physics majors at that time what area they want to specialize in, they STILL pick theoretical particle physics, String, etc...

Your employability as a physics degree holder depends VERY much on what area you specialized in, and what skills you possess. I will right off hand say that these two factors are very limited if you stop at a B.Sc level. At the doctoral level, if you majored in String theory, or other similar theoretical areas, then you can expect that your employability is highly limited in scope, and this would predominantly come from educational institutions. Considering the rate that they are hiring, and the number of graduates that is being produced, a person with this major should not be surprised if offers are very scant. On the other hand, if you're an experimentalist, and you know (i) ultra-high vacuum systems (ii) pulse laser ablation thin film deposition (iii) x-ray diffraction and electron beam diagnostics systems (all these may appear to be different areas, but when you do an experimental work, you don't just do one thing), then by golly, you have the skills that companies as varied as Intel, Applied Materials, .. all the way to National Labs and of course, academic institutions, are looking for! Furthermore, experimentalists are more desireable to academic institutions because of one important thing: they tend to be able to bring more research grant money than theorists.

If there's ever a "moral" to this story to potential physics majors, it is that while you're pursuing your physics degree, never lose sight that eventually, you will leave the secure comfort of an academic life. When that happens, think of what you know and possesses that someone else might find of value. Hopefully, this will influence on what kinds of choices you make along the way.

Zz.

Is it possible to live a life NEVER leaving the secure comfort of academics?

 

[galib20]

very good discussion.
In India the IIT's offer BTech in Applied Physics

 

[NegativeDept]

I know this is probably a stupid question but can't you double in theoretical and experimental in grad school?

There isn't always a sharp divide between theoretical and experimental, at least in my experience. Many of my colleagues are clearly-experimental or clearly-theoretical, but it's possible to pick a research topic that blurs the line between the two.

It's probably a good idea to think of "computational" as a third subset of physicists. Depending on your topic, you may find yourself intersecting with 1, 2, or all 3 sets. For example, I'd say my thesis is about 65% theory, 30% programming, 5% experiment.

 

[NegativeDept]

I suggest that you (and anybody else who is tempted to post) look at the dates on the preceding posts in this thread.

Oops! Oh well, maybe the thread is coming back to life for a reason?