Is it possible for a person in motion to fall over a ledge?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the physical possibility of a person in motion falling over a balcony railing. Participants explore the mechanics involved, including the center of gravity and the dynamics of a running individual interacting with a barrier. The conversation touches on theoretical and experimental aspects of this scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that it is physically possible for a person to fall over a railing if they are running towards it, citing the movement of the center of mass during running.
  • One participant describes how the upper body could rotate around the railing, potentially leading to a somersault and lifting the feet off the ground.
  • There is mention of the need for expert testimony in a legal context, specifically regarding forensic biomechanics, to support claims about the incident.
  • Some participants suggest that reproducing the scenario physically or through simulations could demonstrate the possibility of such a fall.
  • One participant raises the question of likelihood versus possibility, noting that as the height of the barrier increases, the likelihood of falling over decreases, though it remains possible.
  • Concerns are expressed about the unpredictability of human anatomy and muscle contractions in extreme situations, complicating any modeling of the event.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that it is possible for a person to fall over a railing while running, but there is no consensus on the likelihood of such an event or the best methods to demonstrate it. The discussion includes competing views on the mechanics involved and the role of human anatomy.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the center of gravity and its calculation based on body proportions, but there is no consensus on the exact value or its implications. The discussion also highlights the complexity of human movement and the variables involved in such scenarios.

jimmypantspants
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The facts are that the person is 183cm, 82kg, meaning his center of gravity is about at 105cm, he was running towards a railing of a balcony that is 108cm high, and allegedly hit the railing then fell over. Is this physically possible?
 
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jimmypantspants said:
The facts are that the person is 183cm, 82kg, meaning his center of gravity is about at 105cm, he was running towards a railing of a balcony that is 108cm high, and allegedly hit the railing then fell over. Is this physically possible?
Of course. Silly question, IMO.
 
yes.
 
jimmypantspants said:
The facts are that the person is 183cm, 82kg, meaning his center of gravity is about at 105cm, he was running towards a railing of a balcony that is 108cm high, and allegedly hit the railing then fell over. Is this physically possible?
You mean "fell over the railing"? Yes, sounds possible. A running human is not a rigid sliding block, and the center of mass moves more than 3cm vertically during running.
 
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jimmypantspants said:
The facts are that the person is 183cm, 82kg, meaning his center of gravity is about at 105cm, he was running towards a railing of a balcony that is 108cm high, and allegedly hit the railing then fell over. Is this physically possible?
The upper part of the body would rotate around the railing, moving his CoM towards the wrong side and bringing his feet off the floor in a somersault.
 
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A.T. said:
You mean "fell over the railing"? Yes, sounds possible. A running human is not a rigid sliding block, and the center of mass moves more than 3cm vertically during running.
Thanks for the reply! Is there any proof I could use in an official debate? A law or theory ...?
 
jimmypantspants said:
Thanks for the reply! Is there any proof I could use in an official debate? A law or theory ...?
In a court of law you would need some recognized expert on forensic bio-mechanics. But in order to demonstrate that it is possible you just could reproduce the situation (not on the balcony).
 
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A.T. said:
In a court of law you would need some recognized expert on forensic bio-mechanics. But in order to demonstrate that it is possible you just could reproduce the situation (not on the balcony).
Ok thank you! Is there any way I could do so without physically recreating it? A physics simulation? A bit of a stretch hahaha but I don't know what else.
 
If you run, your center of balance is higher so you have time in the air to complete your stride, unless you are jazz-running or something. Since there are so many open variables here, you probably want to switch your question over from, "is it possible" to "is it likely". As the barrier gets higher, it gets less likely to fall over; but certainly it is still possible if the person sort of leaps over.
 
  • #10
jimmypantspants said:
Ok thank you! Is there any way I could do so without physically recreating it? A physics simulation?
If the question is just: "Is it possible?", then an experiment is much simpler, quicker, more reliable and requires much less expertise than a computer simulation.
 
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  • #11
How did you work out his centre of gravity was at 105cm?
 
  • #12
CWatters said:
How did you work out his centre of gravity was at 105cm?
Well approximately that, because i saw that the center of mass of a male is 58% up his body
 
  • #13
What are the physics behind falling over a railing? As in someone running into a balcony railing and falling up and over?
 
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  • #14
jimmypantspants said:
What are the physics behind falling over a railing? As in someone running into a balcony railing and falling up and over?
It's best to use experimental techniques to answer questions like that... :wink:
 
  • #15
jimmypantspants said:
What are the physics behind falling over a railing?
You have the simple part: classical mechanics. And the complicated part: Complex human anatomy, with muscle contractions triggered in a way that is unpredictable in such a extreme situation. This basically makes any type of modeling of such an event pure guess work.
 
  • #16
jimmypantspants said:
What are the physics behind falling over a railing? As in someone running into a balcony railing and falling up and over?

See post #5 above.

Strange things happen when flexible objects fall over "railings"..

 

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