Undergrad Is it possible to calculate this geometrical relationship between circles?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on calculating the number of smaller circles with a radius of 7.4 m that can fit inside a larger circle with a radius of 50 m, while remaining tangent to its surface without using trigonometric functions. The primary method discussed involves using a Taylor expansion to approximate the relationship, leading to the conclusion that a maximum of 18 smaller circles can fit within the larger circle. Alternative methods, including the use of concentric circles and polygonal approximations, are also explored, emphasizing the importance of accuracy in calculations.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of geometric relationships between circles
  • Familiarity with Taylor series expansion
  • Basic knowledge of polygonal geometry
  • Concept of tangential circles
NEXT STEPS
  • Explore the application of Taylor series in geometric calculations
  • Learn about the properties of regular polygons inscribed in circles
  • Investigate methods for calculating circle packing problems
  • Study the use of trigonometric functions in circle geometry
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, geometry enthusiasts, and students studying advanced geometry concepts, particularly those interested in circle packing and geometric approximations.

Sameh soliman
Messages
27
Reaction score
2
TL;DR
Is it possible to calculate that geometrical relationship
A large cirlcle with radius 50 m contains a smaller circle with radius 7.4 m that is tangent to its surface internally. Is it possible to calculate what number of the small circle the larger circle can contain iside it in which all are tangent to its surface ... but without using trig. Functions
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
Why do you not want to use trig functions? They are ideal for circles. Do you also want to play tennis with a baseball instead of tennis ball?
 
  • Haha
Likes berkeman
A prescription is : Draw two lines from the center of large circle of radius R so that they are tangible to the small circle of radius r. How much is the angle between the lines?

With trigonometric, it is 2\ sin^{-1}\ \frac{r}{R-r}

Similar but another approach is, thinking N-regular polygon inside and tangent to the large circle, find N that satisfies
sin \frac{\pi}{N+1}< \frac{r}{R-r} < sin \frac{\pi}{N}.
Mostly we can replace the most LHS and RHS by their first term of Taylor expansion
\frac{\pi}{N+1}< \frac{r}{R-r} < \frac{\pi}{N}
where no trigonometric appear. For OP's case the middle term is 0.1737... so
N<18.08...<N+1
So N=18. I hope Taylor expansion approximation works at least for the OP's case.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Sameh soliman
anuttarasammyak said:
A prescription is : Draw two lines from the center of large circle of radius R so that they are tangible to the small circle of radius r. How much is the angle between the lines?

With trigonometric, it is 2\ sin^{-1}\ \frac{r}{R-r}

Similar but another approach is, thinking N-regular polygon inside and tangent to the large circle, find N that satisfies
sin \frac{\pi}{N+1}< \frac{r}{R-r} < sin \frac{\pi}{N}.
Mostly we can replace the most LHS and RHS by their first term of Taylor expansion
\frac{\pi}{N+1}< \frac{r}{R-r} < \frac{\pi}{N}
where no trigonometric appear. For OP's case the middle term is 0.1737... so
N<18.08...<N+1
So N=18. I hope Taylor expansion approximation works at least for the OP's case.
Thanks for the great work... but is that the closest that we can get ?.. i mean it's the right answer because N is equal 18 but what if in another case N has a fraction ... then by this method we can never know it's accurate value
 
N is a number of sides of polygon, so is an integer, with no fraction. If you are keen on accuracy, estimate second and higher terms of Taylor expansion or, as the straightest way , use trigonometry.
 
  • Like
Likes Sameh soliman
anuttarasammyak said:
N is a number of sides of polygon, so is an integer, with no fraction. If you are keen on accuracy, estimate second and higher terms of Taylor expansion or, as the straightest way , use trigonometry.

I meant by N has a fraction that of number of circles not the number of polygon sides ... anyway thanks for the great work
 
A different approach: Draw a circle, (A) concentric with the big circle, through the center of the small circle. How many small circles can fit tangent to each other centered on A? A very good approximation is ##\frac{42.6\pi }{7.4}=18.08##. It can be made slightly more accurate by estimating a straight line distance between centers.
 
Please do not post homework problems in the technical forums. We have homework forums for this.
Please do not provide full answers. They do not help people in the long run.

In case any of our rules is breached, please report it to a moderator.
Thank you.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 141 ·
5
Replies
141
Views
20K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
5K