Relationship between the radius and area of liquid in a cylinder

In summary, the conversation discussed a calculation to determine the relationship between the radius and area of a liquid spread on the inside mantle of a cylinder with fixed volume and length. The conversation also touched on the significance of the angle θ and its maximum value of 2π, as well as the possibility of negative values. The conversation concluded with a discussion of a formula that still works for θ > π and a request for a proof of this equation.
  • #1
JohnnyGui
796
51
Hello,

I did a calculation to determine whether a liquid with a fixed volume ##V##, would be spread over a larger surface area ##A## on the inside mantle of a cylinder, if the cylinder has a larger radius ##r##. So I’d like to find a relationship between the radius ##r## and the area ##A## over which the liquid is spread in the cylinder. The length of the cylinder ##L## and the volume of liequid ##V## are fixed.

Cylinder.jpg

If the liquid with volume ##V## is put in the cylinder with a radius ##r##, it would have the following picture when cut through;

Circular Segment.jpg


- The area ##O## is formulated as: ##\frac{r^2}{2} \cdot (θ – sin(θ)) = O##.
- The volume ##V## of the liquid would therefore be defined as: ##\frac{r^2}{2} \cdot (θ – sin(θ)) \cdot L =V##.
- The area ##A## of the inside “mantle” of the cylinder over which the liquid is spread is defined as ##L \cdot r \cdot θ = A##.

Combining these formulas will give the relationship of V, θ, r and A in the following form:
$$\frac{2V}{r(1-\frac{sin(θ)}{θ})} = A$$
The radius ##r## can be formulated in terms of θ as well since ##\sqrt{\frac{2V}{L(θ-sin(θ))}}=r##. The end formula being:
$$\frac{2V}{\sqrt{\frac{2V}{L(θ-sin(θ)}} \cdot (1-\frac{sin(θ)}{θ})} = A$$
Plotting the relationship ##\sqrt{\frac{2V}{L(θ-sin(θ))}}=r## with θ being the variable, ##V## and ##L## being fixed values, shows a peculiar graph:

Graph.jpg


There are points in the graph of which the slope is actually zero, which means that a change in θ doesn’t give a change in radius. Looking at the graph as if the radius is the variable (which is my initial question) thus says that there are values of ##r## in which the change θ is vertical, as if it means that the radius ##r## doesn’t need to change to make θ change. I’m not sure how to interpret this.
How is this possible if the length ##L## and the volume of the liquid ##V## are fixed?
 
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  • #2
##\theta## is only meaningful up to 2 pi, the first point where the derivative goes to zero. Your cylinder is nearly filled close to this value, increasing the radius a tiny bit leads to a large change in the angle, with a diverging ratio where the cylinder is exactly full.

There is an angle that minimized the area for a given volume. Here is a plot.
 
  • #3
mfb said:
##\theta## is only meaningful up to 2 pi, the first point where the derivative goes to zero. Your cylinder is nearly filled close to this value, increasing the radius a tiny bit leads to a large change in the angle, with a diverging ratio where the cylinder is exactly full.

There is an angle that minimized the area for a given volume. Here is a plot.

Ah, can't believe I missed this. Furthermore, shouldn't ##\theta## only be meaningful up to ##\pi## instead of ##2\pi## since an angle higer than ##\pi## would give negative values? So with the mentioned formula I can only calculate the area up until the liquid is filling half of the circle?
 
  • #4
Negative values of what? The sine gets negative, but ##\theta - \sin \theta## stays positive. All your formulas work up to 2 pi. 2 pi corresponds to a fully filled cylinder.
 
  • #5
mfb said:
Negative values of what? The sine gets negative, but ##\theta - \sin \theta## stays positive. All your formulas work up to 2 pi. 2 pi corresponds to a fully filled cylinder.

Just checked, and it does indeed work. The truth is that for the picture:

Circular Segment.jpg


I derived a formula myself first, for the area ##O##, which is:
$$r^2 (\frac{\theta}{2} - sin(\frac{\theta}{2}) \cdot cos(\frac{\theta}{2}))$$
I thought that if ##\theta ≥ \pi##, this formula would give an erroneous area of ##O## since I'm deriving the side lengths of triangles with an angle ##\theta##, and thus an angle can not exceed ##\pi##.

However, it does give correct answers even if ##\theta ≥ \pi## and plots the exact same graph as ##\frac{r^2}{2}(\theta - sin(\theta))##.
But I can't really deduce how:
$$r^2 (\frac{\theta}{2} - sin(\frac{\theta}{2}) \cdot cos(\frac{\theta}{2})) = \frac{r^2}{2}(\theta - sin(\theta))$$
Which means that:
$$cos(\frac{\theta}{2}) \cdot sin(\frac{\theta}{2}) = \frac{1}{2} \cdot sin(\theta))$$
Is there a way to prove this equation?
 
  • #6
JohnnyGui said:
$$cos(\frac{\theta}{2}) \cdot sin(\frac{\theta}{2}) = \frac{1}{2} \cdot sin(\theta))$$
Is there a way to prove this equation?
http://www.themathpage.com/atrig/double-proof.htm links to sum formulas, which links to a nice proof.
 
  • #7
SlowThinker said:
http://www.themathpage.com/atrig/double-proof.htm links to sum formulas, which links to a nice proof.

Thanks for the link. So I was still a bit surprised about how the formula still works if ##\theta > \pi## and I've drawn this scenario where the liquid has fillled more than half the circle:

Circle 2.jpg

At first glance, to calculate the circle area ##O## of the liquid I'd say that:
$$r^2 \cdot (cos(\frac{2\pi - \theta}{2}) \cdot sin(\frac{2\pi - \theta}{2}) + \frac{\theta}{2}) = O$$
This formula seems to give the same plot as the initial formula for ##O## that I've posted in my opening post, so that

$$r^2 \cdot (cos(\frac{2\pi - \theta}{2}) \cdot sin(\frac{2\pi - \theta}{2}) + \frac{\theta}{2}) = r^2 (\frac{\theta}{2} - sin(\frac{\theta}{2}) \cdot cos(\frac{\theta}{2}))$$
Thus, the initial formula still gives valid answers for ##\theta > \pi## up until ##2\pi##

Bet there's also a way to prove this equation?
 

What is the relationship between the radius and area of liquid in a cylinder?

The radius and area of liquid in a cylinder are directly related. As the radius increases, the area of the liquid also increases. This is because the area of a circle (and therefore the area of the liquid surface in the cylinder) is calculated using the formula A = πr², where r is the radius of the circle.

Why is the relationship between the radius and area of liquid in a cylinder important?

This relationship is important because it allows us to calculate the volume of liquid in a cylinder, which is crucial for many scientific and practical applications. It also helps us understand the behavior of liquids in containers with varying radii.

How does the height of the liquid in the cylinder affect the relationship between the radius and area?

The height of the liquid in the cylinder does not affect the relationship between the radius and area. As long as the radius remains the same, the area of the liquid surface will also remain the same, regardless of the height of the liquid.

Does the shape of the cylinder affect the relationship between the radius and area of liquid?

No, the shape of the cylinder does not affect the relationship between the radius and area of liquid. As long as the radius remains the same, the area of the liquid surface will also remain the same, regardless of the shape of the cylinder.

How can the relationship between the radius and area of liquid in a cylinder be applied in real-life situations?

The relationship between the radius and area of liquid in a cylinder is used in various fields such as engineering, chemistry, and physics. It can be applied in calculating the volume of liquid in tanks, designing pipes and containers, and understanding the behavior of liquids in different environments.

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