Is it time for a new economic system?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effectiveness and fairness of capitalism as an economic system, exploring whether it is time to consider a new economic model. Participants discuss various economic indicators, perceived inequalities, and the impact of government policies on the economy.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight the increasing disparity in CEO compensation compared to average workers, suggesting it reflects a failing system.
  • Concerns are raised about record profits in certain industries alongside rising food and gas prices, indicating potential systemic issues.
  • Several participants argue that capitalism has not functioned as originally intended, describing it as hierarchical and oppressive.
  • Some participants propose starting over with a new economic system, questioning the viability of capitalism and democracy as they currently exist.
  • Others suggest that the issues mentioned may stem from poor internal U.S. policies rather than capitalism itself, indicating a need for better regulation.
  • There is a viewpoint that existing trade regulations challenge the notion of a purely capitalist system, with some arguing that regulation is detrimental to market freedom.
  • One participant defends capitalism as the best system available, contrasting it with communism or socialism, citing historical failures of those systems.
  • Concerns are expressed about the fairness of capitalism, with a participant questioning whether unemployment could be considered fairer than the current system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of opinions, with some advocating for a complete overhaul of the economic system, while others defend capitalism and suggest that the problems are rooted in policy rather than the system itself. There is no consensus on whether capitalism should be replaced or reformed.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various statistics and historical examples to support their claims, but there are unresolved assumptions about the definitions of capitalism and the effectiveness of proposed alternatives. The discussion reflects a mix of personal opinions and anecdotal evidence without definitive conclusions.

gravenewworld
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-CEOs now on average make 400x's what their average worker makes. In 1980 it was only 40x's. Many CEOs still make ridiculous amounts of money even when their companies are failing.

-Record oil and grain company profits. Food and gas prices now going through the roof. Food riots popping up all over the globe.


-Depressed housing market. Due to overproduction and other predatory practices, home prices in some markets have now been depressed by almost 50%

-US now mostly a service economy due to massive amounts of outsourcing
 
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Could you at least try to connect those facts to the question you ask in the title? Ie, what do those facts have to do with whether or not capitalism is overrated? And overrated by whom? And how is capitalism even "rated" anyway?
 
Yes. It's a failed system. Capitalism does not work at all like the original economists claimed it would. It has obviously been hierarchical and oppressive, like those and other statistics show, and grossly unfair to the workers.

I think we should start over with a new system.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/4Inequality.htm

http://www.un.org/popin/unfpa/dispatches/aug96.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OrbitalPower said:
Yes. It's a failed system. Capitalism does not work at all like the original economists claimed it would. It has obviously been hierarchical and oppressive, like those and other statistics show, and grossly unfair to the workers.

I think we should start over with a new system.

Any suggestions? I kind of like our current one, myself.
 
OrbitalPower said:
Yes. It's a failed system. Capitalism does not work at all like the original economists claimed it would. It has obviously been hierarchical and oppressive, like those and other statistics show, and grossly unfair to the workers.

I think we should start over with a new system.
Our governmental system has also failed to work like political theorists envisioned. We have huge concentrations of political power among large corporations, we have unchecked abuses by executive branches, and we repeatedly have problems with conducting smooth elections.

Should we also abandon democracy?
 
gravenewworld said:
...Many CEOs still make ridiculous amounts of money even when their companies are failing...Record oil and profits...Depressed housing market. Due to overproduction and other predatory practices...
I think the things that you mention has to do with poor internal U.S. policies, rather than capitalism itself. just a thought.
 
g33kski11z said:
I think the things that you mention has to do with poor internal U.S. policies, rather than capitalism itself. just a thought.

So how exactly do you regulate shipping jobs overseas in order to maximize profits? That wouldn't be capitalist then.
 
But since there's already boatloads of trade regulation in the form of embargoes, quotas, tariffs, duties and subsidies, you can hardly say we have a capitalist system in place (particularly one that would be destroyed by enforcing regulations on outsourcing).
 
gravenewworld said:
..So how exactly do you regulate shipping jobs overseas in order to maximize profits?..
I have no idea, I'm not an economist. Like I said, just a thought. I'm sure we could define better policies all around.
 
  • #10
Capitalism is not perfect, but I think it is the best system in the world. Surely you are not advocating communism or socialism. It worked out well for the Soviet Union, though, didn't it?
 
  • #11
gravenewworld said:
So how exactly do you regulate shipping jobs overseas in order to maximize profits? That wouldn't be capitalist then.

Regulation is the problem with America's market right now. The government should not have the right to tell people how much of their earnings they can keep, how they will operate, and who they will hire. I don't feel it's really a free market anymore, because our government has become borderline socialist. I'd welcome a flat tax rate only for individuals without any special taxes on corporations.
 
  • #12
OrbitalPower said:
Yes. It's a failed system. Capitalism does not work at all like the original economists claimed it would. It has obviously been hierarchical and oppressive, like those and other statistics show, and grossly unfair to the workers.
Grossly unfair to the workers? As in unemployment is fairer? People are free to quit their job at any time, they are not forced to work for a company against their will.

I think we should start over with a new system.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/4Inequality.htm

http://www.un.org/popin/unfpa/dispatches/aug96.html
What the heck is this, it's from 1996! What are we supposed to be looking at here? "GIVING TEENS A CHOICE IN BOTSWANA"?
 

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