Is it too late to go back to school and pursue a different career?

[turbo]

I was encouraged to join by a teacher who apparently paid special attention to students who had very high test scores. I thought that she was pompous, self-important, and boring, and I didn't want to belong to any group that included her as a member. She thought of herself as a preserver of local history, and may well have done a good job in that respect, but The MENSA bumper sticker on her car and the pedantic attitude that she took toward people whose families had been responsible for shaping the history of this area turned me off. The oral history from old residents should have been given a LOT more importance than official accounts, artifacts, etc.

 

[rhuthwaite]

Is MENSA an American Thing? I've never heard of it over here or in south africa...

 

[rhuthwaite]

I take that back... we do have it just nobody has joined... and if they have they don't talk about it

 

[Kurdt]

It was founded in England. The High IQ society is American to my knowledge.

 

[Astronuc]

I'm like Groucho Marx - I wouldn't belong to any club/organization that would accept someone like me.

 

[Art]

I joined some years back - out of curiosity went to a few meetings organised in local bars and the like, they were okay, people were fine and pretty much like any other group of folk, talked about the usual pub stuff - football etc.

Unlike other people's experiences here (anecdotal or otherwise) intelligence wasn't so much as mentioned by anyone. It seemed more a social opportunity to meet a disparate group of individuals from outside one's normal sphere. There are also SIGs which allow people with the same interest to communicate globally. MENSA is especially useful for people who travel a lot, which can be a lonely experience, as it gives them an introductory route to meet people in the cities they visit. In many countries MENSA has dedicated officers to assist traveling members in regard to visa requirements, accommodation and advice and information on places to visit.

On a national / international level judging from their newsletters there does seem to be a pompous attitude from the political class who strive for 'appointments' to committees etc. but every club and society I've ever known has suffered from the rise to prominence of those with the 'organising and elitist genes' (think golf for example) and so MENSA is probably the same as other clubs in that regard - no better, no worse.

btw most if not all of the fee MENSA charge applicants for the test is to cover the copyright fee they have to pay to the test originators as is made clear in the literature they provide with the test.

 

[Gilligan08]

I have always had a problem with groups or organizations where their intentions are to separate themselves in an elitist fashion. Things like MENSA and frats create an us and them attitude. If you are really a genius then there certainly there is a better way to prove it than by joining a group. Though I have no problems with groups whose soul pupose is to do good or socialize but they have to except everyone who is willing too, regardless of ability or status.

 

[NeoDevin]

Though I have never had much desire to be part of any such groups, I have no problems with their existing. There is no reason a group should have to accept everyone who wants to join, otherwise there would really be no reason to form the group in the first place.

 

[Gilligan08]

Though I have never had much desire to be part of any such groups, I have no problems with their existing. There is no reason a group should have to accept everyone who wants to join, otherwise there would really be no reason to form the group in the first place.

I have really no problems with them existing. Certainly people have the right join whatever group that makes them feel good about themselves.

And your right there is no other reason for them to exist which was exactly my point that there entire purpose is to exclude. But you are wrong that there is no other reason for groups like this to form. There are groups out there that are for people who want to do good or maybe just socialize. I don't see why someone needs a High IQ for anyone of those reasons.

 

[NeoDevin]

If someone decides they want to socialize with people who have high IQ's, that's there choice, I don't choose it, but I can't say they're wrong for doing it.

 

[Art]

A lot of golf societies require an applicant to have a minimum handicap before they'll be accepted as members and I don't see people getting bent out of shape over that.

 

[Evo]

A lot of golf societies require an applicant to have a minimum handicap before they'll be accepted as members and I don't see people getting bent out of shape over that.

Do they go around claiming that they are better than the general public? That's what I dislike about Mensa members. I can't tell you how many times some moron will contact me saying he's a Mensa member as if that will make up for the fact that he otherwise seems to be rather dim witted. Intelligent people don't introduce themselves by claiming to be intelligent, know what I mean?

 

[D H]

... but they have to except everyone who is willing too, regardless of ability or status.

A non-MENSA member speaking here, so no bones to pick.

No, they don't. It is not yet illegal to discriminate against those with lesser ability. Were that the case, every organization that grants scholarships based on ability would be doing so illegally, be that ability athletic, intelligence, whatever. Should the US come to this sad state of affairs, all that would mean is that said organizations would lose their tax-exempt status. It is none of your frickin' business to say who should or should not be allowed to join an organization in which you do not belong and that obeys all extant laws.

 

[turbo]

Intelligent people don't introduce themselves by claiming to be intelligent, know what I mean?

Evo, successful actuaries are no smarter than successful engineers. They just refer to different tables.

The difference is not in raw intelligence (although what is that anyway?!) but in the ability to make observations, integrate observations, make and test inferences based on these observations, and extrapolate with some new ideas (for new phenomonological tests, not wild speculation!). Have we managed to instill this in our current crop of kids? Not yet.

 

[Gilligan08]

A non-MENSA member speaking here, so no bones to pick.

No, they don't. It is not yet illegal to discriminate against those with lesser ability. Were that the case, every organization that grants scholarships based on ability would be doing so illegally, be that ability athletic, intelligence, whatever. Should the US come to this sad state of affairs, all that would mean is that said organizations would lose their tax-exempt status. It is none of your frickin' business to say who should or should not be allowed to join an organization in which you do not belong and that obeys all extant laws.

Wow, not sure how you were able to mangle the conversation in that way but, I never said it was illegal or even suggested that it should be. I said I disagree with the ideaology of groups that do that. That is it. I fully agree that people have the complete legal and natural right to join MENSA.

As far as the golf thing goes, its a sport. I don't think it really falls under the same kinda thing as MENSA. Certainly there are everything from Rec leagues to professional leagues as far as that goes. Where's the competion in MENSA, there isn't any. All it does is let's everyone know you have a high IQ.

I guess if I were to join MENSA it would be for strictly social or philanthropic reasons. But, then again I could probably think of some better group for that reason that didnt exclude anyone.

 

[Art]

Do they go around claiming that they are better than the general public? That's what I dislike about Mensa members. I can't tell you how many times some moron will contact me saying he's a Mensa member as if that will make up for the fact that he otherwise seems to be rather dim witted. Intelligent people don't introduce themselves by claiming to be intelligent, know what I mean?

Bearing in mind there are only 60,000 MENSA members in the US from a pop of 350,000,000 it is incredible you have met so many as to allow you to form such a firm opinion unless of course some or all of the braggarts you met were lying about their membership. Think about those numbers for a moment. Only 1 in 6000 people in the US are members. Most folk would not communicate in any depth with 6000 people in a lifetime so the odds of meeting even 1 genuine member is slim and the odds of that person mentioning their membership even slimmer so the liklihood is those obnoxious people you refer to are indeed unintelligent and to try and impress you otherwise falsly claim membership of MENSA.

All the members I know (including myself) and I know quite a few from the meetings I referred to, never mention their membership to anyone they know in the real world mainly because it's irrelevant in the course of most conversations and because of the reaction it engenders from some people unqualified to join, know what I mean?

And if you have never met a golfer who bragged about his handicap then I'm astonished. I would consider most golf clubs and societies to be far more elitist than MENSA.

 

[Chi Meson]

Art,

Does Mensa have an online forum yet that doesn't require Compuserve?

Back in 1994, it was my reason for joining both. Later, I found that anyone who had Compuserve didn't need to be a member of Mensa to participate in the Mensa forum. It was pretty good, I must say. A lot of interesting discussions, exactly as it is here. It was my erstwhile online home for four years or so, much the way PF is now.

Then I went back to Mac, switched from Compuserve (not Mac-friendly at the time) and the Mensa forum was lost. That's when I tried their mailserve chat groups. Rubbish.

That was in 1999, and occasionally since then I would see if the Mensans had figured out how to get a true online community going.

 

[J77]

Is being a member of MENSA comparable to being a Freemason... ?

btw. I just got 141 on a facebook IQ test, do you think they'd let me join...

 

[Art]

Chi - Not that I know of in the format you mentioned though as a somewhat sedentary member there could well be one I am unaware of. I know there is a US SIG named NTN (National Trivia Network) which I believe operates as an online forum but as a SIG membership would be restricted to MENSA members.

 

[Art]

Is being a member of MENSA comparable to being a Freemason... ?

btw. I just got 141 on a facebook IQ test, do you think they'd let me join...

Only if you also know the secret handshake, can prove a blood connection to royalty and have a par handicap in golf. Gotta keep the standards up

 

[Chi Meson]

Is being a member of MENSA comparable to being a Freemason... ?

I think riding around in little cars wearing silly hats would be a big step up for Mensa.

 

[Art]

I wonder why it is that people who excel in other disciplines such as football or motor racing and of course golf are idolised whilst people who stand out from their peers by virtue of their intelligence are held up as objects of ridicule and scorn. I am sure many people on this forum would have first hand experience of the abuse even children receive from their peers if they display academic excellence. This same prejudice perhaps explains why top physicists and the like earn a fraction of the salary top sportsmen earn whilst their contribution to society is arguably far greater.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I wonder why it is that people who excel in other disciplines such as football or motor racing and of course golf are idolised whilst people who stand out from their peers by virtue of their intelligence are held up as objects of ridicule and scorn.

For me, the issue is not the intelligence, but the membership. What is the point in joining a group of people whose only common feature is their test scores? In IQ tests, I consistently score 2 or 3 points below the requirement. A simple rounding error could get me in. Mensa accepts any qualifying score, regardless of how many times you failed to qualify. However, in addition to IQ tests, they also accept GRE scores. On the basis of my scores (from more than 30 years ago), I qualify in a breeze. I suppose the reason for the discrepency is that despite the similarities, these two tests quantify different things. Did you join to meet other people who tested well in their IQ scores, or was it the GRE's that attracted you?

At any rate, I qualify. Now give me one good reason to part with $30 a year. I would get the satisfaction of someone telling me that I am smart. Now that I know I qualify, I've already been told, haven't I? , Anyway, my mother has always said that, and my wife and kids never will. To meet other people who can get the next number in the sequence as well as or better than I, while avoiding those who can't? My mother can't count to three without making two mistakes, can I at least wave to her from the window? My wife, on the other hand, may not do well in those kinds of tests, but she has an intelligence about her that shines in all she does. Can I send her a postcard at least?

 

[Art]

For me, the issue is not the intelligence, but the membership. What is the point in joining a group of people whose only common feature is their test scores? In IQ tests, I consistently score 2 or 3 points below the requirement. A simple rounding error could get me in. Mensa accepts any qualifying score, regardless of how many times you failed to qualify. However, in addition to IQ tests, they also accept GRE scores. On the basis of my scores (from more than 30 years ago), I qualify in a breeze. I suppose the reason for the discrepency is that despite the similarities, these two tests quantify different things. Did you join to meet other people who tested well in their IQ scores, or was it the GRE's that attracted you?

At any rate, I qualify. Now give me one good reason to part with $30 a year. I would get the satisfaction of someone telling me that I am smart. Now that I know I qualify, I've already been told, haven't I? , Anyway, my mother has always said that, and my wife and kids never will. To meet other people who can get the next number in the sequence as well as or better than I, while avoiding those who can't? My mother can't count to three without making two mistakes, can I at least wave to her from the window? My wife, on the other hand, may not do well in those kinds of tests, but she has an intelligence about her that shines in all she does. Can I send her a postcard at least?

Why do you consistently take IQ tests?

What is the point of forming a club for adults to hit a little ball around a field with a stick? What is the point of a club whose members kick an air filled ball up and down a field? Do you question the raison d'etre of these clubs too?

Are you a member of any club or society? Do you only communicate exclusively with members of that club? Do you know of anyone who limits themselves in such a way? My guess is probably not so why would you make such an absurd assumption about members of MENSA who btw are encouraged to bring their partners and children to all get-togethers.

 

[Zenparticle]

I wonder why it is that people who excel in other disciplines such as football or motor racing and of course golf are idolised whilst people who stand out from their peers by virtue of their intelligence are held up as objects of ridicule and scorn. I am sure many people on this forum would have first hand experience of the abuse even children receive from their peers if they display academic excellence. This same prejudice perhaps explains why top physicists and the like earn a fraction of the salary top sportsmen earn whilst their contribution to society is arguably far greater.

Maybe it's just me, I haven't seen anyone excelling in school being ridiculed. I have however seen how kids that do not do well academically ridiculed, put down and tossed to the curb. I agree that professional athletes are payed enormous amounts of money and scientists are not, maybe NBC/ABC should air a science competition and start making action figures, hats, shoes- you name it and put that stuff on TV then most would, like sheep follow to be like the person in the box...

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Why do you consistently take IQ tests?

I took three, the last one about 40 years ago.

What is the point of forming a club for adults to hit a little ball around a field with a stick?

To hit the ball with the stick.

What is the point of a club whose members kick an air filled ball up and down a field?

To kick a ball.

So what do you do at a Mensa meeting? Solve 'which one doesn't belong' puzzles?

 

[Art]

To hit the ball with the stick.


To kick a ball.?

Which some people might dismiss as rather pointless

So what do you do at a Mensa meeting? Solve 'which one doesn't belong' puzzles

Sometimes they organise mental challenge competitions comparable to physical challenge competitions but as I've already explained it's mostly about meeting people and convivial conversations. Much as this forum tends to attract intelligent people who switch readily beween the technical and the non-technical areas of this site. Birds of a feather tend to flock together.

 

[Art]

Maybe it's just me, I haven't seen anyone excelling in school being ridiculed. I have however seen how kids that do not do well academically ridiculed, put down and tossed to the curb. I agree that professional athletes are payed enormous amounts of money and scientists are not, maybe NBC/ABC should air a science competition and start making action figures, hats, shoes- you name it and put that stuff on TV then most would, like sheep follow to be like the person in the box...

I think John Lennon summed it up best in Working Class Hero. "They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool"

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Birds of a feather tend to flock together.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. What feather? The issue is not pointlessness. I'm one of those who thinks kicking a ball around is pointless. Well, goal-less. That is, without object. But I recognize that it is a common interest for those clubs. What is the common interest for Mensa members. Their own literature claims that there isn't any. So what do you get with Mensa membership that I don't get when I go down to the corner bar? It seems like IQ puzzle solving is the only commonality. But it isn't even an interest in them that is common, just a facility with them.

 

[Evo]

Art, it's not being intelligent that people ridicule, it's the mentality of people that feel a need to have someone validate that they are smart. To me a validation of intelligence is what you have achieved academically or professionally, and more importantly, what comes out out of your mouth, so to speak.

Since I hang out online and in real life at places frequented by intelligent people, (I used to date a prominent attorney here that headed a lot of the charity balls and other social soirees) I don't find the number of Mensa members disproportionate, of course some are probably lying. You know how many very intelligent people hang out at PF, do you doubt any of them when they say they were or could have joined Mensa? You do seem rather touchy about the fact that you are a member. I'm sure not all Mensa members are pompous windbags. Just remember, you personally aren't being ridiculed, it's the "Mensa mentality" that's just too easy to poke fun at. I personally poke more fun at the "druids" that walk in circles around Stonehenge dressed in sheets once or twice each year. Do you suppose some of them are also Mensa members?