Is it too late to go back to school and pursue a different career?

[Art]

Art, it's not being intelligent that people ridicule, it's the mentality of people that feel a need to have someone validate that they are smart. To me a validation of intelligence is what you have achieved academically or professionally, and more importantly, what comes out out of your mouth, so to speak.

Since I hang out online and in real life at places frequented by intelligent people, (I used to date a prominent attorney here that headed a lot of the charity balls and other social soirees) I don't find the number of Mensa members disproportionate, of course some are probably lying. You know how many very intelligent people hang out at PF, do you doubt any of them when they say they were or could have joined Mensa? You do seem rather touchy about the fact that you are a member. I'm sure not all Mensa members are pompous windbags. Just remember, you personally aren't being ridiculed, it's the "Mensa mentality" that's just too easy to poke fun at. I personally poke more fun at the "druids" that walk in circles around Stonehenge dressed in sheets once or twice each year. Do you suppose some of them are also Mensa members?

To be honest there are some I would doubt but undoubtedly many here would qualify which helps make my point - 1 out of every 50 people are eligible to join MENSA so it is far less elitist than popular misconception would portray. It's official charter states ...

Mensa "provides a forum for intellectual exchange among members. Its activities include the exchange of ideas by lectures, discussions, journals, special-interest groups, and local, regional, national, and international gatherings; the investigations of members' opinions and attitudes; and assistance to researchers, inside and outside Mensa, in projects dealing with intelligence or Mensa." [Mensa Constitution]

My personal opinion is it is used mainly as a networking forum where people can make useful business and social contacts which I think is the underlying reason for the existence of many clubs which is why I am genuinely puzzled by the degree it is singled out for criticism.

This thread was formed to ask who is a member and since I said I was it seems all the vitriol and demands for justifying it's existence are directed at me so I'm just having a little fun

This idea that people join to bolster their ego is slightly paradoxical. Surely the way to appear smart and thus massage your ego is to hang out with stupid people not with the brightest where you can be a very small fish in a big pond.

btw another reason for being a member is their monthly magazine which can have some interesting articles in it. This month's main feature is Global Warming lol

 

[Gilligan08]

To be honest there are some I would doubt but undoubtedly many here would qualify which helps make my point - 1 out of every 50 people are eligible to join MENSA so it is far less elitist than popular misconception would portray. It's official charter states ...My personal opinion is it is used mainly as a networking forum where people can make useful business and social contacts which I think is the underlying reason for the existence of many clubs which is why I am genuinely puzzled by the degree it is singled out for criticism.

This thread was formed to ask who is a member and since I said I was it seems all the vitriol and demands for justifying it's existence are directed at me so I'm just having a little fun

This idea that people join to bolster their ego is slightly paradoxical. Surely the way to appear smart and thus massage your ego is to hang out with stupid people not with the brightest where you can be a very small fish in a big pond.

btw another reason for being a member is their monthly magazine which can have some interesting articles in it. This month's main feature is Global Warming lol

I think your losing the point here. I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that these social groups can be fun and even usefull, I just think why exclude people from an social organization? I mean I realize I am an Idealist but I think social groups should be open to all. I see no point to join this specific organization. I would rather join my idealistic "come one, come all" group ( no requirements ).

As far as the sport bashing is concerned why is everyone hating on hitting a ball with a stick. Sure there may be no great philosophical reason to do it, but it's fun (from someone who hit a ball with a stick for 12 years of his life). Of Course not everyone might find it fun. Cant sit in physics building all the time which ironically I am writing from.

And the reason Athletes make so much money is because there is a huge demand for them. Physicist not so much, even though there contributions might be considered greater by the people of this forum. But don't be jealous I am sure there lives are stale and unfulfilling. haha!

 

[D H]

Your idealism is, IMHO, misplaced. Many organizations are exclusionary, and rightfully so. A university alumni club restricts membership to those who matriculated from the university. A professional society restricts membership to those who satisfy constitute what the society deems to be a professional. An amateur sports club may preclude professional athletes from participating in events. What is wrong with these restrictions?

 

[Gilligan08]

OK, but what those societies have is common interests. What common interest does MENSA have,talking about High IQ's. Being an Alumni doesn't preclude anyone as long as you graduated. Yes, this could be construed as having a prerequsite for admission but I don't think it really lies along the same grounds as someone who joins MENSA.

And of course sport clubs will exclude profesional players, I don't want MJ stuffing me when I am playing Rec league B-ball, and I don't think he would take to much offense to not being able to play. Sport leagues have to stay within reasonable abilities so everyone has fun. Certainly there are other leagues that better players can join. But the basis of MENSA is to exclude, at that is the prupose of it. Alumni groups don't really exclude anyone unless you didnt graduate from that school. Alumni groups help you stay in contact with people you went to school with and that's it.

Basically the difference is that MENSA was created for the purpose of excluding.

 

[Art]

I doubt there is a single professional in this forum who is not a member of at least one club or society which has conditions of entry and I'm willing to bet their entry conditions would be more stringent and so would exclude a lot more of the population than MENSA's do.

 

[Gilligan08]

Well I am not a professional yet, so I don't know what it takes to be in one of these groups. But I am in groups on campus, none of which have resctictions on who can join. So there are plenty of groups out there that are open for membership. I guess I see MENSA as having a VERY loose connection between its members. There is no really commonality in just having a High IQ. I don't even know my own, because my parents decided to never tell me (probably because I'm an idiot, and they didnt know how to tell me). But really because my father used to administer IQ tests while working for the Public Health Service and he absolutly thinks they have no bearing on someones chances of success academically (of course this is his own opinion). And I never said MENSA is the only group I disagree with. I might object to whatever organizations you are referring too. This idea of joining a group to set yourself apart from others has always bothered me for some reason. Sport leagues and most things like this arent created for the intention of excluding. MENSA and things like Fraternities have no other real purpose except excluding. I feel like these are silly things that help people to build an identity. A quick alternate solution to finding ones self, is to create yourself by identifying with a smaller group. But, maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion. In fact I might very well be.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I doubt there is a single professional in this forum who is not a member of at least one club or society which has conditions of entry and I'm willing to bet their entry conditions would be more stringent and so would exclude a lot more of the population than MENSA's do.

Take the Rittenhouse Astronomical Society for instance. It too provides a forum for intellectual exchange among members. Its activities include the exchange of ideas by lectures, discussions, journals, special-interest groups, and local and regional gatherings; and assistance to researchers, inside and outside the Society, in projects dealing with astronomy. Although there is an expectation that you wouldn't join unless you were interested in astronomy, there are no conditions of entry other than a membership fee, and meetings are not restricted to members and their guests.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

By the way, here is their web site:
Rittenhouse Astronomical Society

Here is a description of 'Members Night", emphasis mine:

Members Night November 14th! This is an opportunity for members to present a topic of astronomical or scientific interest. It can be one they are directly involved with (like attending one of the many Star Parties by various astronomy clubs) or an interest, possibly a skill they wish to share with fellow members. Please contact us if you are interested in giving a 10 or 15 minute mini-presentation! A possible theme to consider is "Astronomy Gimmicks, Guides and Gear" (9/28/07)

All Call For Members Night ! Although members present our topics for the evening, the public is welcome to attend. Check out our meeting line-up for ideas we have submitted so far...still more openings to consider your presentation! (10/15/07)

Attendence is not restricted to members even on members night.

 

[wildman]

Most people’s jobs and lives are pretty boring. Life is especially boring for the extremely bright caught in mundane work. This can cause a person to feel the need to affirm that they are intelligent and worthy. MENSA plays this role. As such it can be quite beneficial to those people.

On the other hand, if you are a bright star in engineering or scientific research, looking forward to each day’s adventure, you don’t need something like MENSA. Actually you would find it silly. After all, who needs someone to affirm your intelligence after spending the day doing something like solving a trajectory problem that brings the Space Shuttle home safely or doing research that will end up published in "Nature"?

 

[Zantra]

IMHO, if you are truly gifted intellectually artistically, or otherwise, you most likely already know, and don't require validation from a test or a membership to tell you so. I doubt someone with a 150+ IQ takes the test, and is profoundly overwhelmed by the brand new concept that he/she is not a moron. They knew by the time they were 10 years old.

Everyone seeks some kind of validity. Mensa is not that means. Learn a new language, create a new language, invent a cooler video game or write a book. Do something worthwhile. If you're not using it, you shouldn't be bragging about having it. because that just makes it a waste. I believe that being gifted and not using it (as is the case with many of the mensa members I've heard) is worse than not having the gift at all. I've never heard positive things about Mensa. I'm sure when it was founded, it was altrustic and brought together the collective intellectual giants of it's time. Obviously that has changed in general.

 

[Chi Meson]

IMHO, if you are truly gifted intellectually artistically, or otherwise, you most likely already know, and don't require validation from a test or a membership to tell you so. I doubt someone with a 150+ IQ takes the test, and is profoundly overwhelmed by the brand new concept that he/she is not a moron. They knew by the time they were 10 years old.

Everyone seeks some kind of validity. Mensa is not that means. Learn a new language, create a new language, invent a cooler video game or write a book. Do something worthwhile. If you're not using it, you shouldn't be bragging about having it. because that just makes it a waste. I believe that being gifted and not using it (as is the case with many of the mensa members I've heard) is worse than not having the gift at all. I've never heard positive things about Mensa. I'm sure when it was founded, it was altrustic and brought together the collective intellectual giants of it's time. Obviously that has changed in general.

I think you have overgeneralized. Most of the members I have met do not fit your description. In all the on-line discussions, and in the one "face-meeting" I had with members (before that term existed) no one ever brought up their "score."

And anyone with an IQ above 140 will not have to take another test (since they assuredly have a prior valid test score from school, and SAT scores are acceptable). Most are not seeking validation, yet still they join. They have their reasons.

I personally did not remain a member because the local group offered nothing I was interested in. They were big on Scrabble, though. Wicked Scrabble players. All the scores were in the 100s or 200s.

 

[moe darklight]

There is an interesting article on this month's Scientific American Mind on the Flynn effect and the reliability of IQ testing and intelligence testing in general by Flynn himself.

I don't really have an opinion on MENSA. I mean, there are stuck-up idiots in all groups and I don't see why MENSA would be an exception; but that doesn't mean that there aren't well intentioned people who join for valid reasons. ... many of us are members of PF and not other science forums because it has its standards and, while joining is free for anyone, not getting kicked out for not living up to those standards is another story. I personally don't think that IQ tests are the most accurate way of measuring a person's intelligence —I've met some pretty dumb geniuses; or what about the many brilliant minds of science and art throughout history who I guess weren't geniuses after all, regardless of their incredible and groundbreaking achievements —

nobody is forcing anyone to join or questioning anyone's intelligence for not joining. I personally wouldn't join simply because I don't think I'd get anything out of it, but someone else might, so that's cool.

I miss PF! lately I've been on so many things that I haven't read a single page of physics or science.

 

[Mattius_]

I find it funny how along with everyone's opinion they have to insert the declaration that they themselves are "good enough" to be in the organization they are frowning upon. Is a high test score required to have a valid opinion on the matter?

It sounds to me like we all have our own form of elitism and do not realize it.

 

[Zantra]

I think you have overgeneralized. Most of the members I have met do not fit your description. In all the on-line discussions, and in the one "face-meeting" I had with members (before that term existed) no one ever brought up their "score."

And anyone with an IQ above 140 will not have to take another test (since they assuredly have a prior valid test score from school, and SAT scores are acceptable). Most are not seeking validation, yet still they join. They have their reasons.

I personally did not remain a member because the local group offered nothing I was interested in. They were big on Scrabble, though. Wicked Scrabble players. All the scores were in the 100s or 200s.

The IQ I mentioned is an arbitrary number. I'm not saying all members are lacking, just that the organization has bad PR. The bad press is all that's out there nowadays.

Also, it's a well known fact that IQ is not a predictor of success. Just because you're hung like a moose, doesn't mean you'll do porn

 

[J77]

I doubt there is a single professional in this forum who is not a member of at least one club or society which has conditions of entry and I'm willing to bet their entry conditions would be more stringent and so would exclude a lot more of the population than MENSA's do.

Yeah, I'm a member of the feminist, Islamic, freemasonry society.

That was one tough initiation.

 

[Fla Breeze]

Well I am not a professional yet, so I don't know what it takes to be in one of these groups. But I am in groups on campus, none of which have resctictions on who can join. So there are plenty of groups out there that are open for membership. I guess I see MENSA as having a VERY loose connection between its members. There is no really commonality in just having a High IQ. I don't even know my own, because my parents decided to never tell me (probably because I'm an idiot, and they didnt know how to tell me). But really because my father used to administer IQ tests while working for the Public Health Service and he absolutly thinks they have no bearing on someones chances of success academically (of course this is his own opinion). And I never said MENSA is the only group I disagree with. I might object to whatever organizations you are referring too. This idea of joining a group to set yourself apart from others has always bothered me for some reason. Sport leagues and most things like this arent created for the intention of excluding. MENSA and things like Fraternities have no other real purpose except excluding. I feel like these are silly things that help people to build an identity. A quick alternate solution to finding ones self, is to create yourself by identifying with a smaller group. But, maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion. In fact I might very well be.

I was about to make a comparison between MENSA and Fraternities, and bam, there you go!

You're a bit off though.

Consider this; when you're playing for a competitive sports team, most times there's try-outs. A team with aspirations of success is going to put the best players possible on their team. The point of playing a competitive sport is to win.

Well, here's the point of MENSA as Art put it...

Mensa "provides a forum for intellectual exchange among members. Its activities include the exchange of ideas by lectures, discussions, journals, special-interest groups, and local, regional, national, and international gatherings; the investigations of members' opinions and attitudes; and assistance to researchers, inside and outside Mensa, in projects dealing with intelligence or Mensa." [Mensa Constitution]

If MENSA wants to have intellectual exchange, it only makes sense that they would let intellectuals in, correct? An IQ Test is an intellectual try-out of sorts.

Besides, you don't really want to congregate with these people to bask in their collective flagellance, do you?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I find it funny how along with everyone's opinion they have to insert the declaration that they themselves are "good enough" to be in the organization they are frowning upon.

It's not that funny, there is a natural selection going on. People who can't get in don't want to be accused of a 'sour grapes' attitude, so they don't post criticism. And people who post criticism don't want to be accused either, so they point out their eligibility.

Is a high test score required to have a valid opinion on the matter?

Unlike Mensa, these forums do not require a high test score to have an opinion. Validity is your own lookout.

 

[J77]

Anybody else do the facebook IQ test...

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

If MENSA wants to have intellectual exchange, it only makes sense that they would let intellectuals in, correct?

Most forums for intellectual exchange get by without such restrictions and do quite well. After all, there is a downside to such exclusion. For instance, you may exclude experts on the subject you are discussing. What's more, you end up sharing ideas with a narrow group rather than a wide one.

Your sports analogy isn't all that good anyway. Mensa isn't competing in anything are they? And competitive sports teams restrict on the basis of skill in the sport. What does Mensa do that requires the skill of solving 'what comes next' type multiple choice puzzles.

 

[Art]

It's not that funny, there is a natural selection going on. People who can't get in don't want to be accused of a 'sour grapes' attitude, so they don't post criticism. And people who post criticism don't want to be accused either, so they point out their eligibility.

Which unfortunately immediately brings to mind shades of "I cud a bin a contender" The other thing I find paradoxical is how many people who criticize MENSA are themselves obsessed with IQ tests and will take every web based test they can find. I suspect some people at least who would be eligible to join don't attempt the MENSA test because they fear failure. Better to travel in hope and all that...

Even if you despise MENSA there is nothing to stop one taking their supervised test (providing you score at least in the 95th pct in the home test) and obtaining your percentile ranking. Even if one proves oneself eligible joining is not compulsory.

I should mention the supervised test (actually several tests) is a hell of a lot more gruelling than the home test. It takes around 3 hours and so also measures mental stamina.

 

[Chi Meson]

I should mention the supervised test is a hell of a lot more gruelling than the home test. It takes around 3 hours and so also measures mental stamina.

They also accept SAT and ACT scores, plus a number of other standardized indicators.

I'd venture to guess that the better reason for Mensa to exist has been wiped out by internet forums such as this. For those of you who regularly check this site to add your opinion on any arbitrary topic of discussion...what would you do if there was no internet? Where would you go if you wanted to air your ideas on random subjects, talk with old friends and new people at the same time, all the while relying on the fact that you didn't have to tolerate insipid, rude, and uninspired (and sometimes dominantly voluminous) commentary? That is what we have here. Looking back on this thread as an example, everyone has a valid input that was well written, without rancor, and reasonable.

Such a thing is hard to find.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I'd venture to guess that the better reason for Mensa to exist has been wiped out by internet forums such as this.

But forums predate Mensa by a few thousand years. And they always had their share of insipid, rude, and uninspired (and sometimes dominantly voluminous) commentary.

I keep trying to find out what is discussed at a Mensa meeting. All I can find out is that they have intellectual exchanges. But so many organizations have intellectual exchanges. I mentioned the Rittenhouse Astronomical Society, they get together to discuss astronomy. What does Mensa get together to discuss that requires high IQ?

 

[Art]

But forums predate Mensa by a few thousand years. And they always had their share of insipid, rude, and uninspired (and sometimes dominantly voluminous) commentary.

I keep trying to find out what is discussed at a Mensa meeting. All I can find out is that they have intellectual exchanges. But so many organizations have intellectual exchanges. I mentioned the Rittenhouse Astronomical Society, they get together to discuss astronomy. What does Mensa get together to discuss that requires high IQ?

Why not join and find out. Then at least you can criticize from a position of authority

btw Do you also spend your time wondering what any of the other myriad groups around the world discuss or is it only MENSA which captivates you??

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Why not join and find out. Then at least you can criticize from a position of authority.

The thought has crossed my mind, but I won't part with the $30. Is it criticism to ask what is discussed at meetings?

Do you also spend your time wondering what any of the other myriad groups around the world discuss or is it only MENSA which captivates you??

At the moment, it's just Mensa. Once, I did wonder what the members of the South Jersey Orchid Society found to talk about, but after a moment's reflection, I was off the case.

 

[Astronuc]

I keep trying to find out what is discussed at a Mensa meeting. All I can find out is that they have intellectual exchanges. But so many organizations have intellectual exchanges. I mentioned the Rittenhouse Astronomical Society, they get together to discuss astronomy. What does Mensa get together to discuss that requires high IQ?

I suppose it depends upon the interests of the individuals. Much like PF, they probably discuss topics in their professional areas and other areas of interest. Or they could discuss politics, current affairs, golf, soccer, hockey, weather, GW, globalization, human behavior, . . . .

I seem to recall one of my father's friend was in MENSA. IIRC, he asked if I was interested in joining. I declined. At no time did he talk about how smart he was, but he seemed to feel I might enjoy the social experience.

Everytime I took a test like SAT/Achievement/GRE, I'd get a letter (or a series of letters) from MENSA. I just never had the urge to join. When I was much younger, I just preferred not to be a member of any organization - although I was in MuAlphaTHeta (Math Honor Society) and the Chemistry Honor Society in high school, and that was primarily due to the desire of my teachers, who I really liked.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Much like PF, they probably discuss topics in their professional areas and other areas of interest. Or they could discuss politics, current affairs, golf, soccer, hockey, weather, GW, globalization, human behavior, . . . .

No doubt all of this kind of stuff gets discussed. Even at the astronomical society, it's not stars 24/7. But there is a common interest in astronomy and that is what they get together for. In Mensa, according to their own literature, there is no common interest. So what do they get together for? Although they have no common interest, they do have something in common, that's why I joked about them posing IQ test type problems to each other. But apparently, they don't discuss the one thing they have in common. Someone wrote (forgive me for not remembering who) that they had recently discussed global warming. Compare a discussion on this (or any topic) that includes only smart people, to one that includes experts and interested parties. I'm still not getting it.

 

[Astronuc]

Maybe they get together for intelligent discussion on a variety of topics. MENSA members are likely experts in their academic/professional field.

I think Art mentioned that a local MENSA chapter had a discussion on GW or CC.

OK - try this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MENSA I'm taking the easy way out here.

Mensa has three stated purposes: to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity; to encourage research in the nature, characteristics, and uses of intelligence; and to promote stimulating intellectual and social opportunities for its members.

There you go! Stimulating intellectual and social opportunities.

Well PF certainly does that! And it's free, but one can certainly be a contributor for less the $30.

So these guys really know how to have fun!
AMERICAN MENSA AND ACTIVEPACKETS TEAM TO PROVIDE MOBILE USERS WITH MENSA GENIUS CHALLENGE
http://www.us.mensa.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&CONTENTID=4984

For more information about Mensa, or to apply for membership, visit www.us.mensa.org or call (800) 66-MENSA.

 

[Art]

Well PF certainly does that! And it's free, but one can certainly be a contributor for less the $30.

But where MENSA wins is that once a member you can never be thrown out no matter what you say or do

MENSA is the last refuge of the intelligent banned internet forum poster

 

[Fla Breeze]

Most forums for intellectual exchange get by without such restrictions and do quite well. After all, there is a downside to such exclusion. For instance, you may exclude experts on the subject you are discussing. What's more, you end up sharing ideas with a narrow group rather than a wide one.

Your sports analogy isn't all that good anyway. Mensa isn't competing in anything are they? And competitive sports teams restrict on the basis of skill in the sport. What does Mensa do that requires the skill of solving 'what comes next' type multiple choice puzzles.

The point of competitive sports is to win. So they recruit the best athletes.

The point of MENSA is to have an intellectual exchange. So they accept intellectuals.

What didn't you get?


I agree with your first paragraph though.

 

[robphy]

OK - try this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MENSA

If not, try this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Densa
and this - http://home.comcast.net/~czell/densa.htm