Is It true that matter cannot be created or destroyed?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether matter can be created or destroyed, exploring various perspectives on this principle in the context of physics, particularly in relation to trees, nuclear reactions, and particle physics. Participants examine theoretical implications and practical examples, including chemical and nuclear processes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of the idea that matter cannot be created or destroyed, citing examples such as trees growing and seemingly creating more matter.
  • Others argue that in closed systems, matter changes form but is not created or destroyed, referencing the transformation of solid to gas and the conservation of atomic components.
  • A participant notes that matter is indeed created and destroyed in nuclear reactors and particle accelerators, suggesting that this contradicts the traditional view.
  • It is mentioned that trees utilize carbon from the atmosphere and nutrients from the soil to grow, indicating that they do not create matter but rather transform existing matter.
  • Some participants discuss the distinction between matter and mass, questioning whether the concepts are well-defined or vague, particularly in the context of energy release during nuclear reactions.
  • There is a discussion about the energy associated with chemical bonds and how it relates to the mass of particles, with some clarifying that energy is released during bond formation rather than breaking.
  • Participants highlight that in nuclear fission, the total number of fundamental particles remains constant, and energy is released due to changes in binding energy rather than the destruction of matter.
  • One participant suggests that matter-antimatter interactions represent a clear conversion of matter to energy, while others emphasize that matter and energy can only be converted, not destroyed.
  • There is a mention of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) and its role in particle interactions, with some participants seeking clarification on whether it destroys particles or merely converts them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the creation and destruction of matter, with some asserting that matter is conserved in most processes, while others contend that nuclear reactions and particle physics provide examples of matter being created or destroyed. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about closed systems, the definitions of matter and mass, and the conditions under which matter may be considered created or destroyed. There are unresolved mathematical and conceptual nuances regarding energy transformations in chemical and nuclear reactions.

  • #31
Dale said:
By “matter” I mean the fermions of the Standard Model and by destroyed I mean that the Feynman diagrams for the interaction has the fermion entering but not leaving.

This is a good precise definition, yes.
 
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  • #32
PeterDonis said:
This is a good precise definition, yes.
Thanks! I also recognize that there are other possible definitions
 
  • #33
Dale said:
By “matter” I mean the fermions of the Standard Model and by destroyed I mean that the Feynman diagrams for the interaction has the fermion entering but not leaving.

A fine definition. But note that conservation of angular momentum prevents the sort of processes you are describing.
 
  • #34
Vanadium 50 said:
conservation of angular momentum prevents the sort of processes you are describing.

?? A QED diagram with two entering fermion lines (electron and positron) and two exiting photon lines is perfectly consistent; it just has to have two vertices (at lowest order).
 
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  • #35
You're right. I was thinking about something else entirely: N fermions in, N-1 fermions out.
 
  • #36
PeterDonis said:
Whether matter can be destroyed depends on what you mean by "matter" and what you mean by "destroyed".

Agreed. They are almost weasel words when exact context is not nailed down.
 
  • #37
Outhouse said:
They are almost weasel words when exact context is not nailed down

I think "weasel words" is a bit strong; the terms do have well-established meanings. They just don't have unique well-established meanings. But I agree that nailing down exact context is a good thing.
 

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