Is LaPlace's Skepticism on Knowledge and Progress Justified?

[QuantumTheory]

The people you konw in real life probably know NOTHING about physics. I could probably paraphrase an entry from wikipedia about steam engines and tell it to someone on the street and they would say I'm smart for my age! It would not be because I am smart, it woudl be because your average person just does not know enough about any given subject to say you are not smart!

It doesn't take knowledge of physics to know someone knows a lot for their age. That doesn't mean smart, by the way.

I'm done arguging with you.

 

[QuantumTheory]

The people you konw in real life probably know NOTHING about physics. I could probably paraphrase an entry from wikipedia about steam engines and tell it to someone on the street and they would say I'm smart for my age! It would not be because I am smart, it woudl be because your average person just does not know enough about any given subject to say you are not smart!

And my grandpa who studied physics and economics doesn't have a bachelors in physics?

I just explained it.

I'm sure if you spoke tom e in real life, you'd change your mind.

 

[ComputerGeek]

That's not my intent at all.
When I talk to people in real life for awhile, and not mention it at all, then I ask them (after I knew them for awhile) they say I do know a lot for a teenager.
I just can't believe, all of you folks, don't think this. My mom disagrees, my dad, my grandpa (who was a physicst), and EVERYONE I know.

Why do you need to ask them?

and again... most of the folks here were not "normal" teenagers. most were very knowledgeable at your age.

Think about it like this... yo go to MIT, yo had a 4.14 (honors credits) in High School and got a 1520 on the SAT and a 34 on the ACT... you are super smart... Do you think that anyone cares about the accolades you got before arriving at MIT? no, because everyone there had the same experience and the profs there expect that you should have those kind of scores to get in.

 

[siddharth]

QuantumTheory,

In India, there is a common final exam for all Class 12 students in the country who study in schools which are part of the Central Board of Secondary Education.

http://www.cbse.nic.in/curric~1/phy05o.htm"
In that link, you will find a set of Physics question papers of the common final exam for the year 2005. This paper was answered by students, the vast majority of whom were 17 years old.

Why don't you actually attempt these papers and post the solutions here? We can tell if your solutions are right or not. That way, you will have an approximate idea of your physics knowledge when compared to other students of your age.

One more thing, the time limit of the exam is 3 hours.

 

[Pengwuino]

There you go trying to disprove me again. Argue with someone your own age. Do you have anything better to do?
When you get older, you obviously have more experiences, and therefore, more knowledge.
I do learn the math. And I don't ignore textbooks. When did I say that? Mr.Smarty pants?

This is not the forum to have your ego boosted. If you ask a question, people will answer you based on facts, not based on what you want to hear. I think you need to argue with your parents since I am sure they won't mind telling you you are right simply to boost your self-confidence.

And no, you don't have more konwledge because you get older. If that's true, then every 70 year old out there should at the least be able to do integrals or calculate bohr H energies... and obviously, they dont...

 

[Gale]

please never call pengwuino mr smarty pants again. not only did you mean it as a blatant insult, its just silly to call him smart anything... especially pants.

btw, pengwuino and i are your age.

also, its a matter of agreeing to disagree. We do NOT think you know a lot, you do. obviously no one is changing their opinion. so do stop arguing about it please.

 

[QuantumTheory]

This is not the forum to have your ego boosted. If you ask a question, people will answer you based on facts, not based on what you want to hear. I think you need to argue with your parents since I am sure they won't mind telling you you are right simply to boost your self-confidence.
And no, you don't have more konwledge because you get older. If that's true, then every 70 year old out there should at the least be able to do integrals or calculate bohr H energies... and obviously, they dont...

I've made many legit questions on calculus. Perhaps you should go read them. This was before I went insane from the members here. ANytime I post a thread about myself its an attack. Anytime I post something about math, its a welcome. (Most of the time)

Argue with my parents? excuse me? I've asked them to if it was to boost my self confidence and they said it was not that. I think you don't know me, and therefore, shouldn't judge me. Or better yet, get a life and stop wasting away on forums.

 

[ComputerGeek]

There you go trying to disprove me again. Argue with someone your own age. Do you have anything better to do?
When you get older, you obviously have more experiences, and therefore, more knowledge.
I do learn the math. And I don't ignore textbooks. When did I say that? Mr.Smarty pants?

you seem to be mixing up Knowledge and wisdom.

Some old lady who has a 4th grade education and knows squat about academic materials is probably a very wise person because of her life experiences.

Wisdom brings common sense.. knowledge brings understanding.

 

[QuantumTheory]

please never call pengwuino mr smarty pants again. not only did you mean it as a blatant insult, its just silly to call him smart anything... especially pants.
btw, pengwuino and i are your age.
also, its a matter of agreeing to disagree. We do NOT think you know a lot, you do. obviously no one is changing their opinion. so do stop arguing about it please.

Fair enough, he insulted me.

You didn't think I know alot? I never asked if I was smart, just if I knew a lot for my age, which I know I do, and others agree. You don't need to know physics to know this. Quite frankly, you, and many other people here, are ridiculous.

 

[QuantumTheory]

you seem to be mixing up Knowledge and wisdom.
Some old lady who has a 4th grade education and knows squat about academic materials is probably a very wise person because of her life experiences.
Wisdom brings common sense.. knowledge brings understanding.

I see. Thank you. i agree with your obversation.

 

[Pengwuino]

I'm sure if you spoke tom e in real life, you'd change your mind.

Unless this whole forum thing is a complete act, I am fairly sure I won't change my mind. Many of the people who have delt with you on this forum have a pretty good idea of what you know and unless you're just hiding it all from us and playing us for fools, there's no way that we would think your smart outside of the forum. Using big words or speaking coherently does not equate with intelligence.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Using big words or speaking coherently does not equate with intelligence.

Don't say that to an English Major :-D

 

[Gale]

please, I've said it jokingly and seriously, just stop insulting people. it does no good at all. i feel I'm being very not-riddiculous. check out siddarths link. maybe you just are from a community that you seem to know more than, but world wide, it doesn't seem to be the case. accept it and move on sweetie, its ok. if you keep worrying about where you stand compared to everyone else, you won't get anywhere. stick with your calc threads, and don't make ones about yourself. you've noticed the trend... so just go with it.

 

[QuantumTheory]

Q

Unless this whole forum thing is a complete act, I am fairly sure I won't change my mind. Many of the people who have delt with you on this forum have a pretty good idea of what you know and unless you're just hiding it all from us and playing us for fools, there's no way that we would think your smart outside of the forum. Using big words or speaking coherently does not equate with intelligence.

Like I said, I'm not smart. my IQ is 78. That's mildy retarded.

I just wanted you to acknowledge I know a lot for my age, I think this can be seem sa ego boosting, but this forum is ridiculous. Do you think being smart is only from studying math or physics? You can be emotionally smart, and there's many different ways to it.
And as you say, if so many teensa re interested in what I do and like to study calculus, prove it. Seriously. Prove it. Becauseit is complete and utter rubbish.

I honestly think asking quesitons what I do, and I believe I have a good rational view on philopshy, and good questions. Yes, you just answered your own quetsions. This fourm is a complete act.

 

[QuantumTheory]

please, I've said it jokingly and seriously, just stop insulting people. it does no good at all. i feel I'm being very not-riddiculous. check out siddarths link. maybe you just are from a community that you seem to know more than, but world wide, it doesn't seem to be the case. accept it and move on sweetie, its ok. if you keep worrying about where you stand compared to everyone else, you won't get anywhere. stick with your calc threads, and don't make ones about yourself. you've noticed the trend... so just go with it.

If you were to go on the playstation forums, you would notice how mature I am, and how I appreciate constructive critism. I may be getting it on this thread, but the people are quite frankly, don't know what they are talking about about every teenager being interested in philosphy and physics. It just isn't true.

I understand if I keep comparing it to myself it won't get me anywhere. But it especially makes me worthless (and I do have depression) when you say I'm worthlesss, average, and a complete idiot compared to other teenagers my age.

Would you rather me say math is stupid, I hate math, i hate physics, school sucks, drugs are cool, i play video games all day, nerks suck, and act very stupid, and also, never ask any good quesitons?

How about talking like this?

How R U PPL DOING?

I've made many good discussings here, made many rational posts, and it isn't appreciated, as well as you are flat out, insulting.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Like I said, I'm not smart. my IQ is 78. That's mildy retarded.
I just wanted you to acknowledge I know a lot for my age, I think this can be seem sa ego boosting, but this forum is ridiculous. Do you think being smart is only from studying math or physics? You can be emotionally smart, and there's many different ways to it.
And as you say, if so many teensa re interested in what I do and like to study calculus, prove it. Seriously. Prove it. Becauseit is complete and utter rubbish.
I honestly think asking quesitons what I do, and I believe I have a good rational view on philopshy, and good questions. Yes, you just answered your own quetsions. This fourm is a complete act.

Actually, you are within 2 standard deviations of the mean IQ, thusly, you are not mildly retarded. In fact, most mental impairment scales do not begin until 75. anything over and you are not considered CI.

 

[Pengwuino]

Don't say that to an English Major :-D

My father got a BA from UCSD in English... and man, I am not sure I've met that many people who speak in a less coherant manner then he does. My grandfather, who has alzheimers, is sometimes more coherent haha.

 

[ComputerGeek]

My father got a BA from UCSD in English... and man, I am not sure I've met that many people who speak in a less coherant manner then he does. My grandfather, who has alzheimers, is sometimes more coherent haha.

well.. heh yeah... I , however, always think of my High School English teacher.. he spoke FORMAL english... it took everyone in the class 5 minutes to digest his last two sentences

 

[Gale]

no one is going to say you know a lot for your age, because we know it isn't true. you know a fair amount. be happy for that. be pleased that despite your less than average IQ, that you've managed a very aqedquate level of physics knowledge. I'm 18, I'm your peer. i like physics and math. I'm a sophomore in college. I've been studying seriously for a few years now. worse yet, I'm a girl, so its even more amazing. screw em. i really don't know much at all. sadly, people around me and apparently around you have low standards. PF does not.

really, we want to help you. REALLY. but whenever you talk about yourself, you don't really appreciate the sort of community here. we're not going to let you be average and then tell yourself you're more. we're going to tell you straight up hard facts. if you don't want to hear it, that's ok... frankly i wouldn't want to go around pf hearing about how subpar i am either. so don't set yourself up for it. just worry about what you're learning here, that's what you're really here for. so don't cause yourself more problems.

 

[QuantumTheory]

Ridiculous, more laughable then not though. People here think they are so smart,a nd like to make me feel bad by saying, quote, most teenager world wide are interested in mathematics, calculus, physics, and philosphy, curtesy of Gale's very intellectual post! Amazing! This must mean, 90% of the people on the playstation forums (There are some teens that know a lot about physics, but few and very rare. These are often the more mature ones.) know a lot more than me on philopshy, physics, mathematics, and, get this, and calculus. In fact, I'm sure they are calculus guru's. Damn, those teens, they are mini-einsteins! Wow, incredible

This just defies logic, maybe beacuse, oh, wait, it isn't logic! Wow.

They also all have a masters degree in Philophsy,and since spelling isn't a form of intelligence, they speak like this:
"HOW R U, n00b" and are considered by superiors a mini einsteins!

Seriously. most of them have NO IDEA what I'm saying. And I'm posting in the off topic forum, which has NOTHING to do with video games. Gale, you are very humorous. It's funny. really. It's funny you could think such things. No one except on this stupid forum agrees with you. (ok maybe your nerdy friends). But that's right, I know nothing. Yes, that's right. Everyone else knows the concepts of philpshy, razors theorum, stroke integrals, as well as physics and calculus! ESpecially teens! In fact, its all the craze now!

 

[Pengwuino]

Like I said, I'm not smart. my IQ is 78. That's mildy retarded.

You won't find a job based on your IQ. Hell its even illegal to ask for an IQ in most cases. Einstein wasn't praised for his IQ. Mozart's music did not come from his IQ score. Stop with this IQ crap

I just wanted you to acknowledge I know a lot for my age, I think this can be seem sa ego boosting, but this forum is ridiculous. Do you think being smart is only from studying math or physics? You can be emotionally smart, and there's many different ways to it.

Well how are we suppose to know that you are emotionall smart? Street smart? Whatever smart? How do we konw? The ONLY basis we have around here is math and physics. No it is not the only "smart" out there but that's the only one that is posted around here. How do you expect us to seriously say your emotionally smart without having one "emotional" post from you?

And as you say, if so many teensa re interested in what I do and like to study calculus, prove it. Seriously. Prove it. Becauseit is complete and utter rubbish.

I don't know where I said lots of teens are interested. They may be interested but they are probably not INTERESTED. People like to bat around the idea of time travel or worm holes or free energy or nuclear reactions for a few minutes a month... but outside of that, they don't have REAL interests in physics.

I honestly think asking quesitons what I do, and I believe I have a good rational view on philopshy, and good questions. Yes, you just answered your own quetsions. This fourm is a complete act.

Most people are not acting around here and they usually have the means of proving it, unlike you. And yes, that "prove" means a lot more then you think it means.

 

[QuantumTheory]

no one is going to say you know a lot for your age, because we know it isn't true. you know a fair amount. be happy for that. be pleased that despite your less than average IQ, that you've managed a very aqedquate level of physics knowledge. I'm 18, I'm your peer. i like physics and math. I'm a sophomore in college. I've been studying seriously for a few years now. worse yet, I'm a girl, so its even more amazing. screw em. i really don't know much at all. sadly, people around me and apparently around you have low standards. PF does not.
really, we want to help you. REALLY. but whenever you talk about yourself, you don't really appreciate the sort of community here. we're not going to let you be average and then tell yourself you're more. we're going to tell you straight up hard facts. if you don't want to hear it, that's ok... frankly i wouldn't want to go around pf hearing about how subpar i am either. so don't set yourself up for it. just worry about what you're learning here, that's what you're really here for. so don't cause yourself more problems.

And that, my friend, is where you are wrong. Unless my friends, peers, my grandpa who is a physicst, and everyone else I know IN REAL LIFE, is wrong, you are very, very mistaken.

Do you really believe most teenagers have these interests? Especially philopshy? Come on man. Open your eyes. I thought it was good that i was interestd in this stuff, but apparently not.

I don't know much at all compared to people here. But I know more than an average teenager would. I can bet you that.

 

[QuantumTheory]

You won't find a job based on your IQ. Hell its even illegal to ask for an IQ in most cases. Einstein wasn't praised for his IQ. Mozart's music did not come from his IQ score. Stop with this IQ crap
Well how are we suppose to know that you are emotionall smart? Street smart? Whatever smart? How do we konw? The ONLY basis we have around here is math and physics. No it is not the only "smart" out there but that's the only one that is posted around here. How do you expect us to seriously say your emotionally smart without having one "emotional" post from you?
I don't know where I said lots of teens are interested. They may be interested but they are probably not INTERESTED. People like to bat around the idea of time travel or worm holes or free energy or nuclear reactions for a few minutes a month... but outside of that, they don't have REAL interests in physics.
Most people are not acting around here and they usually have the means of proving it, unlike you. And yes, that "prove" means a lot more then you think it means.

I cannot prove physics theories because I don't know physics. good for them.

I am INTERESTED in physics. Yet you tend to bat aruond I know very little compared to other teens. How much you want to bet you're wrong? I don't like to insult other people, or harass them, but what you're saying here is unrational, and ridiculous. Most 'average' teens arent interested in this stuff (at least not like I am) and definitely won't study it, yet you think, compared to other teenagersm y age, they are very superior than me.

Whats wrong with you?

 

[Pengwuino]

And that, my friend, is where you are wrong. Unless my friends, peers, my grandpa who is a physicst, and everyone else I know IN REAL LIFE, is wrong, you are very, very mistaken.

They are probably faking it. People who know nothing about physics arent going to say you don't know much for your age! It's rude and stupid. Thus, they will say you know a lot because they know absolutely nothing. Your grandfather is probably trying to be nice. He as well won't be very ready to say you don't know much. It's like your mother saying your the cutest kid in town. MAAAAAAYBE they are right, but until you get out and meet all those people, you have no way of saying they are right.

 

[Gale]

If you were to go on the playstation forums, you would notice how mature I am, and how I appreciate constructive critism. I may be getting it on this thread, but the people are quite frankly, don't know what they are talking about about every teenager being interested in philosphy and physics. It just isn't true.
I understand if I keep comparing it to myself it won't get me anywhere. But it especially makes me worthless (and I do have depression) when you say I'm worthlesss, average, and a complete idiot compared to other teenagers my age.
Would you rather me say math is stupid, I hate math, i hate physics, school sucks, drugs are cool, i play video games all day, nerks suck, and act very stupid, and also, never ask any good quesitons?
How about talking like this?
How R U PPL DOING?
I've made many good discussings here, made many rational posts, and it isn't appreciated, as well as you are flat out, insulting.

comparing yourself to the play station forums on matters of science does not make you look any better dear. the average teen is as likely not a playstation junkie as he is a physics nerd. also, I've tried very hard not to be negative with you. i know how hard it is to battle depression and being suicidal. anyone on this forum can probably tell you about the many many threads I've had on the matter. honestly, I'm very sympathetic to your situation. i have NOT been insulting at all. have you considered maybe some of us don't really like be insulted either.

at any rate, I'm glad you like physics. if you're anywhere near as persitant in learning as you are telling us off, you could go far.

 

[QuantumTheory]

no one is going to say you know a lot for your age, because we know it isn't true. you know a fair amount. be happy for that. be pleased that despite your less than average IQ, that you've managed a very aqedquate level of physics knowledge. I'm 18, I'm your peer. i like physics and math. I'm a sophomore in college. I've been studying seriously for a few years now. worse yet, I'm a girl, so its even more amazing. screw em. i really don't know much at all. sadly, people around me and apparently around you have low standards. PF does not.
really, we want to help you. REALLY. but whenever you talk about yourself, you don't really appreciate the sort of community here. we're not going to let you be average and then tell yourself you're more. we're going to tell you straight up hard facts. if you don't want to hear it, that's ok... frankly i wouldn't want to go around pf hearing about how subpar i am either. so don't set yourself up for it. just worry about what you're learning here, that's what you're really here for. so don't cause yourself more problems.

If I'm only 'average' then what isn't? How high are the standards here? Seriously. You know I'd have to know Fourier series calculus or better yet something higher to be hailed better than 'average'. Quite ridiculous.


I think most people who post about physics here enjoy it, but besides that, I hate it.I can't stand it. I find its the most selifsh, immature (at least relating to the piano forum) forum I know. In fact, people on the playstation forum are more mature. And yes, that is true. Sadly. That's why I'd go there. WHERE my posts are appreciated.

 

[QuantumTheory]

comparing yourself to the play station forums on matters of science does not make you look any better dear. the average teen is as likely not a playstation junkie as he is a physics nerd. also, I've tried very hard not to be negative with you. i know how hard it is to battle depression and being suicidal. anyone on this forum can probably tell you about the many many threads I've had on the matter. honestly, I'm very sympathetic to your situation. i have NOT been insulting at all. have you considered maybe some of us don't really like be insulted either.
at any rate, I'm glad you like physics. if you're anywhere near as persitant in learning as you are telling us off, you could go far.

Right, most teens are interested in physics more than video games. WTF??

I realize you're not trying to insult me, but your logic is quite strange.

 

[QuantumTheory]

They are probably faking it. People who know nothing about physics arent going to say you don't know much for your age! It's rude and stupid. Thus, they will say you know a lot because they know absolutely nothing. Your grandfather is probably trying to be nice. He as well won't be very ready to say you don't know much. It's like your mother saying your the cutest kid in town. MAAAAAAYBE they are right, but until you get out and meet all those people, you have no way of saying they are right.

I agree, its rude. But I don't know the math behind physics, I do know a lot more overall, however.

I'm showing this (every post here) to my parents tommarrow, as well as my grandma. However, I know it is by far irrational.

 

[Pengwuino]

I cannot prove physics theories because I don't know physics. good for them.
I am INTERESTED in physics. Yet you tend to bat aruond I know very little compared to other teens. How much you want to bet you're wrong? I don't like to insult other people, or harass them, but what you're saying here is unrational, and ridiculous. Most 'average' teens arent interested in this stuff (at least not like I am) and definitely won't study it, yet you think, compared to other teenagersm y age, they are very superior than me.
Whats wrong with you?

I swear I made this point to you a few times: MOST TEENAGERS KNOW ALMOST NOTHING. You do know something about physics, but it is NOT a lot. A "LOT" is knowing calculus, doing enough to get past lower-division physics courses... stuff like that. You know a little more then the average 17 year old but you do not know a LOT more then your average 17 year old. I went to HS with 17 year olds who did know full blown calculus, nearly into upper division physics (not offiically, but they had enough konwledge). There are even 15 year olds who know that much. The point is you do NOT know a LOT for your age. You know a LITTLE more then the average 17 year old but no one here expects many MIT admissions officers to jump out of their seat to get you into their programs. It's not being rude, it's being honest.

 

[Gale]

ok, i didn't say more teens liked physics than video games, but its as likely that a teen is as extreme about one as they are about the other. also when i said "no one will say you're better than average" i meant on this forum, I'm sorry i wasn't more precise.

yes, the standards here are higher. yes, it will be very hard to be considered "above average" here. So what? that's not why you're here. be average and happy with that. I'm only average, and that OK! were i you, i'd leave this thread and post something productive in homework help to try and learn something asap. that's the best way to handle things right now.