Is LaPlace's Skepticism on Knowledge and Progress Justified?

[QuantumTheory]

Math is wrong?
What does that mean?

It means he has an extreme viewpoint on life. And my dad worked for NASA< and worked on the space shuttle, yet this guy thinks it never happened (the moon landing) .

 

[QuantumTheory]

So, you would rather not be criticized by people for wrong ideas (and we are not talking political opinions, this is science) than to understand, at least conceptually, why you are wrong?

I understand conceptually why time dilation is proven, and why time travel is theortically possible. The problem is, people keep spouting off "Its impossible, its been proven". its never been proven, and many physicsts believe it is at least in theory possible. However the paradoxes seem to not allow this. Still, why say its impossible?

I'd much rather not be FLAMED. There's a difference between constructive critism, and flaming. Flaming is flat out insults. I get this a lot for questions such as "Is playing the piano by ear a talent?" They say "everyone can do it" and very immature stuff worse than that. See the thread on it.

 

[QuantumTheory]

i'd say I'm perfectly average, and you don't know more than i did a year ago. therefore you're perfectly average as well. anyone who know less is subpar. if you want to know more, read more, and stop talking about it so much. and instead of just cramming facts, try to understand their impications and derivations. understanding is more important than knowledge... someone once said that right? well they should've.

How old are you? Are you telling me anyone who doesn't know physics and what i know is sub par? That's pretty immature. Most teenagers my age don't know the concepts of physics, philosphy, etc. Some do, but not most. I thikn its mature I am interestd at this at such a young age, you don't agree? To me, it sonds like your discourging me to study physics. Seriously. Are all of you people this way? Even in real life?

I do understand their implications. I don't 'cram facts'. Heh.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Not him dude, ME. What do you think? I made at thread earlire, and because people don't want to hear what i think (They care more abuot themselves, not me) I got pretty badly flamed.
I am going to study physics. I enjoy the mateh I have now, (Been through some algebra, geometry) and have heard calculus is harder. If it really is that hard, I'm afraid to do it.
However, I'm very incomplete and haven't finished algebra, geometry, trig OR PRE CALC. So perhaps if I understand all of these very wel calculus will be a breeze. Still, I've heard, its much more abstract. Is this true?

The secret to Calc is understand algebra and remember your trig identities.

Calc 1 is not to bad, calc 2 sucks because you learn a million different methods to integrate (all being necessary for different situations) and calc 3 is nice because you get to play with everything you learned.

but that does not even scratch the surface of modern[as in, since the 18th century] mathematics, like group theory, set theory, number theory (most of it is old, but a lot of new stuff is there), topology, etc.

Don't worry, if you learn what you are doing along the way, it gets easier (especially once you have set theory and number theory down)

 

[Gale]

you should really stop dwelling on things and move on. your continual rantings don't exactly make you more popular. live, learn, (and then get luvs) just move on. don't talk about what's happened, and don't say what will. just worry about what you're learning, that's what people here care about. check everything else at the door.

 

[QuantumTheory]

you should really stop dwelling on things and move on. your continual rantings don't exactly make you more popular. live, learn, (and then get luvs) just move on. don't talk about what's happened, and don't say what will. just worry about what you're learning, that's what people here care about. check everything else at the door.

Dwelling on what? I don't want to be popular, seriously. IS what is popular right? No. If I was popular i'd be out smoking pot with other teens. Do I? NO, I've never done drugs.

 

[ComputerGeek]

i'd say I'm perfectly average, and you don't know more than i did a year ago. therefore you're perfectly average as well. anyone who know less is subpar. if you want to know more, read more, and stop talking about it so much. and instead of just cramming facts, try to understand their impications and derivations. understanding is more important than knowledge... someone once said that right? well they should've.

actually, knowledge comes from facts and concepts, and understanding is made mostly from concepts.

yes, concepts are the most important tool in building knowledge because they give you a context from which to use your facts.

 

[QuantumTheory]

The secret to Calc is understand algebra and remember your trig identities.
Calc 1 is not to bad, calc 2 sucks because you learn a million different methods to integrate (all being necessary for different situations) and calc 3 is nice because you get to play with everything you learned.
but that does not even scratch the surface of modern[as in, since the 18th century] mathematics, like group theory, set theory, number theory (most of it is old, but a lot of new stuff is there), topology, etc.
Don't worry, if you learn what you are doing along the way, it gets easier (especially once you have set theory and number theory down)

Thakn you ! That gives me so much encouragement. My teacher wanted to be a mathematican but on calculus got stuck on imaginary number. This is why I want to study physics more.

Gale is a prime example of why I don't post on this forum. He's saying that people who aren't interested in the concepts and understand the concepts of philopshy, mathematics, physics, and science are sub-par.

Thats a ridiculous and bold statement. Yet I'm the one being penealized. I'm not trying to attack him just point out its very immature. Espeiclaly because I'm only 17!

Eesh..

 

[ComputerGeek]

Dwelling on what? I don't want to be popular, seriously. IS what is popular right? No. If I was popular i'd be out smoking pot with other teens. Do I? NO, I've never done drugs.

Good, because I can tell you, it is not as much fun as you would think... in hind sight that is.

 

[Gale]

How old are you? Are you telling me anyone who doesn't know physics and what i know is sub par? That's pretty immature. Most teenagers my age don't know the concepts of physics, philosphy, etc. Some do, but not most. I thikn its mature I am interestd at this at such a young age, you don't agree? To me, it sonds like your discourging me to study physics. Seriously. Are all of you people this way? Even in real life?
I do understand their implications. I don't 'cram facts'. Heh.

what's flaming again? and how is what you just did to me not that? am i so immature really? i'd say you really don't give kids very much credit. you haven't expressed any very complex ideas of physics yet. just what you could read in any pop sci book, and plenty of people read those, and if not, plenty of high school science teachers do, and pass that info down.

at any rate, i think it would do you a lot of good to think of yourself as more average as far as your knowledge goes. i think people on the forum have been trying to humble you. i understand that you're insecure, and that physics has been your place to feel secure and confident, but its made you very difficult to communicate with. think of yourself as average and you'll strive for more, instead of trying to defend your 'superior' posistion.

 

[QuantumTheory]

Good, because I can tell you, it is not as much fun as you would think... in hind sight that is.

Its illegal in many states and why would people want to do that 'to be cool' or 'becausel ife is so short, why not fun' when you can have fun in more productive ways. I honestly think saying this is very mature for my age, do you not agree? Does EVERYONE here not agree?

Gale and the rest are driving me nuts. I'm sorry.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Thakn you ! That gives me so much encouragement. My teacher wanted to be a mathematican but on calculus got stuck on imaginary number. This is why I want to study physics more.
Gale is a prime example of why I don't post on this forum. He's saying that people who aren't interested in the concepts and understand the concepts of philopshy, mathematics, physics, and science are sub-par.
Thats a ridiculous and bold statement. Yet I'm the one being penealized. I'm not trying to attack him just point out its very immature. Espeiclaly because I'm only 17!
Eesh..

Unfortunately, you can not get away from the complex set of numbers by studying physics... if you want to get away from that, go into accounting.

Complex numbers are not that hard to get once you look at them long enough. (BTW... those words in your math text... are there for reading )

 

[Pengwuino]

Not him dude, ME. What do you think? I made at thread earlire, and because people don't want to hear what i think (They care more abuot themselves, not me) I got pretty badly flamed.

I am going to study physics. I enjoy the mateh I have now, (Been through some algebra, geometry) and have heard calculus is harder. If it really is that hard, I'm afraid to do it.

However, I'm very incomplete and haven't finished algebra, geometry, trig OR PRE CALC. So perhaps if I understand all of these very wel calculus will be a breeze. Still, I've heard, its much more abstract. Is this true?

It's not that people odn't want to hear what you think, it's that people are sick of you not wanting to listen to what real experts have to say on the issue. Many people have come forward to tell you how possible time travel is... or isn't... and you continually deny their expertise and effectively say "I don't care, someone vaguely mentioned its possibility, thus I am right and I demand attention".

 

[QuantumTheory]

what's flaming again? and how is what you just did to me not that? am i so immature really? i'd say you really don't give kids very much credit. you haven't expressed any very complex ideas of physics yet. just what you could read in any pop sci book, and plenty of people read those, and if not, plenty of high school science teachers do, and pass that info down.
at any rate, i think it would do you a lot of good to think of yourself as more average as far as your knowledge goes. i think people on the forum have been trying to humble you. i understand that you're insecure, and that physics has been your place to feel secure and confident, but its made you very difficult to communicate with. think of yourself as average and you'll strive for more, instead of trying to defend your 'superior' posistion.

Flaming is basically insulting someone.

I don't give much credit. How old are you? How many teenager are interested in subjects such as this? I know some that are, but seriously, not many.

I am a teenager. I know them. I also have and had in the past some friends. Theyt hink I'm WEIRD because I like physics and all this, they DO not relate

As a teenager relating to another teenager, I think I do know more, not 'average'.

BUt you're right, if I think I am average it may make me go farther. If you compare me to an adult (18+) sure, but other teens? 17 to 13? No way.

Knowledge comes with age.

Pop si book? No. I research it on wikipedia, which is, by the way, about just as accurate as britannia. I'm going to study pre alg all the way to calculus in college, than physics.

Ask me what time dilation is. Is that fake too?

I really do more than what you give me credit for.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Its illegal in many states and why would people want to do that 'to be cool' or 'becausel ife is so short, why not fun' when you can have fun in more productive ways. I honestly think saying this is very mature for my age, do you not agree? Does EVERYONE here not agree?
Gale and the rest are driving me nuts. I'm sorry.

I know a lot of responsible adults who still partake in some herbal enjoyment from time to time.

I do not use it anymore and that is a personal choice for me, just like you not wanting to use it is a personal choice for you.

It being illegal, or it being the socially correct thing to think has nothing to do with my abstention from doing drugs (I just do not like being impaired or addicted)

 

[QuantumTheory]

It's not that people odn't want to hear what you think, it's that people are sick of you not wanting to listen to what real experts have to say on the issue. Many people have come forward to tell you how possible time travel is... or isn't... and you continually deny their expertise and effectively say "I don't care, someone vaguely mentioned its possibility, thus I am right and I demand attention".

I agree with them. Its improbably but it isn't impossible. Also, you don't flame someone to get their point across. Please see this thread: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=105126&highlight=talent+piano

 

[Gale]

Gale is a prime example of why I don't post on this forum. He's saying that people who aren't interested in the concepts and understand the concepts of philopshy, mathematics, physics, and science are sub-par.
Thats a ridiculous and bold statement. Yet I'm the one being penealized. I'm not trying to attack him just point out its very immature. Espeiclaly because I'm only 17!
Eesh..

i'm a she first of all, second of all, i was hardly so critical. students by their senior year of high school should know some physics and math, i didn't mention philosophy. some don't, awell. you do, kudos. i don't think you know an extrordinary amount, especially because you don't know the maths, and physics is very hard to understand without math. you know a good deal, just not more than average. be comfortable with that.

and i say, you do seem to attack this forum and its members a bit too often, whether you try to or not. you should be careful of that, it really isn't making you fond aquaintances.

 

[QuantumTheory]

I know a lot of responsible adults who still partake in some herbal enjoyment from time to time.
I do not use it anymore and that is a persona choice for me, just like you not wanting to use it is a personal choice for you.
It being illegal, or it being the socially correct thing to think has nothing to do with my abstention from doing drugs (I just do not like being impaired)[/QUOTE]


I agree, many do. "herbal remedies"

Its supposed to do more harm than good, but still,illegal.

Doing it doesn't make you a bad person, many smart people do it.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Flaming is basically insulting someone.
I don't give much credit. How old are you? How many teenager are interested in subjects such as this? I know some that are, but seriously, not many.
I am a teenager. I know them. I also have and had in the past some friends. Theyt hink I'm WEIRD because I like physics and all this, they DO not relate
As a teenager relating to another teenager, I think I do know more, not 'average'.
BUt you're right, if I think I am average it may make me go farther. If you compare me to an adult (18+) sure, but other teens? 17 to 13? No way.
Knowledge comes with age.
Pop si book? No. I research it on wikipedia, which is, by the way, about just as accurate as britannia. I'm going to study pre alg all the way to calculus in college, than physics.
Ask me what time dilation is. Is that fake too?
I really do more than what you give me credit for.

I don't want to tick you off, but really, while it is good that you are interested in the sciences (especially the purest of them), you being a teenager and being interested in them doe snot make you exceptional... at least here it does not since I would say almost everyone who is here for discussion was interested or is interested in their teenage years.


Oh, and turning 18 does not magically make you an adult... that wonderful transformation happens much later when you start making good judgement calls (I am almost there I think )

 

[QuantumTheory]

i'm a she first of all, second of all, i was hardly so critical. students by their senior year of high school should know some physics and math, i didn't mention philosophy. some don't, awell. you do, kudos. i don't think you know an extrordinary amount, especially because you don't know the maths, and physics is very hard to understand without math. you know a good deal, just not more than average. be comfortable with that.
and i say, you do seem to attack this forum and its members a bit too often, whether you try to or not. you should be careful of that, it really isn't making you fond aquaintances.

Thanks I agree. I do not agree with 'not more than average' for a teenager (or minor) under 18.

I knew about einstein when I was 9,a nd even pondered advanecd stuff such as QM from a young age.

I'm not smart, but its a good passion.

Fond acquantances? I think some of the stuff is ridiculous. My mom is a very mature person, and has read some of the terrible stuff on this forum (and flat out insults) on the piano talent thread. She was appaled. She told me to stop going there. Why don't you folks go meet people in real life instead of wasting away your life on a forum? In fact, I should do the same. People here are only bringing me down.

 

[QuantumTheory]

I don't want to tick you off, but really, while it is good that you are interested in the sciences (especially the purest of them), you being a teenager and being interested in them doe snot make you exceptional... at least here it does not since I would say almost everyone who is here for discussion was interested or is interested in their teenage years.
Oh, and turning 18 does not magically make you an adult... that wonderful transformation happens much later when you start making good judgement calls (I am almost there I think )

I never said I was exceptional just I was interested in a lot of stuff 'normal' teenagers werent. Your correct many have been here since they were 18 (studied it) but do you realize that is a very small minority of teens?

I just said I was going to leave yesterday, yet I keep coming back. WHy do I wnat to leave? The people here. I've talked to people in real life, and EVERYONE yes, everyone, even strangers, thinks I know a lot for my age, seriously. Not one denied it. Perhaps people here are robots, meant to say the same thing. Its strange that other people completely deny everything you say.

 

[Gale]

i'm glad that computergeek's attempt have at least been taken as friendly. you don't have to be popular QT, but if you want to talk to people, which it seems you do since you keep coming back... you just may want to work on those social skills a tad. refrain from talking about yourself in general, and just worry about the physics. you'll get a lot farther, especially here.

 

[Pengwuino]

Knowledge comes with age.

Pop si book? No. I research it on wikipedia, which is, by the way, about just as accurate as britannia. I'm going to study pre alg all the way to calculus in college, than physics.

No No No No No No No No

Knowledge does NOT come with age. NO NO NO. WRONG. ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Einstein did not win the Nobel Prize for being old. He did not win it for complaining about no one would listen to him. He did not win by ignoring textbooks and not bothering ot learn the math.

 

[ComputerGeek]

I never said I was exceptional just I was interested in a lot of stuff 'normal' teenagers werent. Your correct many have been here since they were 18 (studied it) but do you realize that is a very small minority of teens?
I just said I was going to leave yesterday, yet I keep coming back. WHy do I wnat to leave? The people here. I've talked to people in real life, and EVERYONE yes, everyone, even strangers, thinks I know a lot for my age, seriously. Not one denied it. Perhaps people here are robots, meant to say the same thing. Its strange that other people completely deny everything you say.

I agree with Gale's last statement, you need to stop your self promotion. It turns people off. People will see that you know whatever it is that you know and judge you by that.

let your knowledge speak about you.

 

[ComputerGeek]

No No No No No No No No

Knowledge does NOT come with age. NO NO NO. WRONG. ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Einstein did not win the Nobel Prize for being old. He did not win it for complaining about no one would listen to him. He did not win by ignoring textbooks and not bothering ot learn the math.

No.. he won it for the photoelectric effect (right?)

 

[Mk]

someone get pengwuino a hug. STAT.

What does stat mean anyway? Is it an acronym? Short for "statistics?"

 

[QuantumTheory]

I agree with Gale's last statement, you need to stop your self promotion. It turns people off. People will see that you know whatever it is that you know and judge you by that.
let your knowledge speak about you.

That's not my intent at all.

When I talk to people in real life for awhile, and not mention it at all, then I ask them (after I knew them for awhile) they say I do know a lot for a teenager.

I just can't believe, all of you folks, don't think this. My mom disagrees, my dad, my grandpa (who was a physicst), and EVERYONE I know.

 

[Pengwuino]

I just said I was going to leave yesterday, yet I keep coming back. WHy do I wnat to leave? The people here. I've talked to people in real life, and EVERYONE yes, everyone, even strangers, thinks I know a lot for my age, seriously. Not one denied it. Perhaps people here are robots, meant to say the same thing. Its strange that other people completely deny everything you say.

The people you konw in real life probably know NOTHING about physics. I could probably paraphrase an entry from wikipedia about steam engines and tell it to someone on the street and they would say I'm smart for my age! It would not be because I am smart, it woudl be because your average person just does not know enough about any given subject to say you are not smart!

 

[QuantumTheory]

No No No No No No No No

Knowledge does NOT come with age. NO NO NO. WRONG. ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Einstein did not win the Nobel Prize for being old. He did not win it for complaining about no one would listen to him. He did not win by ignoring textbooks and not bothering ot learn the math.

There you go trying to disprove me again. Argue with someone your own age. Do you have anything better to do?

When you get older, you obviously have more experiences, and therefore, more knowledge.

I do learn the math. And I don't ignore textbooks. When did I say that? Mr.Smarty pants?

 

[Gale]

What does stat mean anyway? Is it an acronym? Short for "statistics?"

no i believe it just means "shake that ass tiger" you know, that's why doctors are always saying it to their nurses. "i need a scapel, and STAT!" horny doctors...