Is Marijuana Decriminalization Overdue?

[Evo]

The legal system was corrupt and he was pretty much untouchable - the Feds hit on the tax-evasion charge after other attempts to pin something on him failed.

It was a great idea. Hard to think of someone ending up in Alcatraz for tax evasion.

 

[turbo]

It was a great idea. Hard to think of someone ending up in Alcatraz for tax evasion.

It was the only viable way to get him. All the local judges, prosecutors, cops, etc were either on the take or in fear for their lives, so the only way to get a conviction was to move him into the Federal court system and nail him on a charge that was completely under Federal jurisdiction. No change of venue, no shopping around for "bought" judges, etc.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The illegality restricts access to marijuana and drive up prices so that gangs and cartels can make a lot of money importing and distributing it. Legalization would not eliminate gang activity, but it would certainly cut back on their ability to raise funds. Since gangs that profit from the drug trade also engage in other activities that are less benign, it would benefit us all to remove a significant source of their funding. It would be a good idea to abandon the "war on drugs" approach to marijuana, and instead direct some potion of that spending toward preventing crimes against individuals.

Al Capone belonged in prison, not because he smuggled and sold liquor, but because he employed murder, extortion, and other crimes to ensure the profitability of his syndicate. Today's gangs are no better or worse.

Yes, the laws are what make drugs so dangerous to all of society and not just the users. I actually favor decriminalizing all drugs. And for those who think this is a liberal opinion, it is motivated in large part by the so called father of modern conservatism, William F Buckley - he recognized the irony of the drug laws long ago. But one only needs to spend a little time in a place like S Central LA to see the lunacy of the laws. The fact that the problem has only gotten worse over the decades [much worse!] is clear evidence that the laws don't work. But the laws do help to destroy lives and to finance crime and terrorists. There are gangs in LA that are better armed than the police, and they get their money for these arms from drug sales.

The Taliban is financed in part by the Afghanistan poppy [opium] crops.

 

[The Dagda]

Some of them won't even go to after work functions if alcohol is served at the place. What can I say?

Product of the temperance movement I suppose. Doesn't mean it's particularly biblical in origin. I hope they are all right otherwise. :/

 

[turbo]

Yes, the laws are what make drugs so dangerous to all of society and not just the users. I actually favor decriminalizing all drugs. And for those who think this is a liberal opinion, it is motivated in large part by the so called father of modern conservatism, William F Buckley - he recognized the irony of the drug laws long ago.

Buckley was 'way out in front of the "conservative" movement on this issue. He was actually what we would call a libertarian these days. I am fiscally VERY conservative, and would like to shrink government spending and taxation as responsibly as possible, and I found myself agreeing with Buckley on many issues, just as I found myself disgusted by the neo-cons who managed to hijack the GOP.

The Republican party would strenuously resist any attempt to de-regulate the cultivation, sale, and use of marijuana, and would use any such attempt to paint proponents as "druggies", "soft on crime" or much worse. As is often the case, their rhetoric would be 180 deg off the mark, because taking the funding (marijuana distribution profits) away from the gangs would make inner cities safer, and free up law-enforcement to engage in activities that actually protect citizens.

 

[Monique]

I don't go to clubs anymore, and all of the people I associate with through work are Bible Thumpers, and think alcohol is the devils work. Also, my age group has pretty much finished with partying.

Then I don't think they'll be looking to get stoned any time soon either

As for your remark about only using marijuana to get stoned, the way I've seen it used by friends is that they share a joint and only take a few drags: just to get a small buzz of relaxation. It's the same with space cake, you only take a little and not the whole cake (you don't want to get completely stoned). Some people probably do want to get completely stoned, but that is not really fun when you are in a company with other people who are not using.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Buckley was 'way out in front of the "conservative" movement on this issue. He was actually what we would call a libertarian these days. I am fiscally VERY conservative, and would like to shrink government spending and taxation as responsibly as possible, and I found myself agreeing with Buckley on many issues, just as I found myself disgusted by the neo-cons who managed to hijack the GOP.

The Republican party would strenuously resist any attempt to de-regulate the cultivation, sale, and use of marijuana, and would use any such attempt to paint proponents as "druggies", "soft on crime" or much worse. As is often the case, their rhetoric would be 180 deg off the mark, because taking the funding (marijuana distribution profits) away from the gangs would make inner cities safer, and free up law-enforcement to engage in activities that actually protect citizens.

the problem is that law enforcement survives based on laws like this and cities/counties get a lot of revenue from it. currently here in southern california for just about any ticket you receive you will wind up paying three to five times the actual fine(depending on the offense) after fees and penalties are assessed. and the police officers in the quiter areas will pounce on anybody for anything. except few of them actually go out there to deal with real crimes. most of them find a cozy spot to sit where they can watch a stop sign that people tend to run or wait for some speeders or hang out around bars in hopes someone will give them reason to pull them over and hopefully get a dui arrest. when I went to a madd meeting an officer there said that he starts every shift with the intention of hunting people down for dui and pointed out that by california law you did not need to exceed the "legal limit" for a dui. another officer there told us about arresting a woman who had accidentally ODed on asprin for a dui.
so I think we need to be sure that the police are well funded before throwing away one of their quota makers.

 

[mbisCool]

Yeah no crime ever happens where I grew up so the police basically just screwed over as many kids as possible. They just sit outside the high school parking lot and wait. My friend got a speeding ticket for doing 38 in a 35 on the way to school.

Hate how money governs virtually everything in some way or another :/

 

[Ivan Seeking]

AP) You know you're in a different kind of college when a teaching assistant sets five marijuana plants down in the middle of a lab and no one blinks a bloodshot eye.

Welcome to Oaksterdam University, a new trade school where higher education takes on a whole new meaning.

The school prepares people for jobs in California's thriving medical marijuana industry. For $200 and the cost of two required textbooks, students learn how to cultivate and cook with cannabis, study which strains of pot are best for certain ailments, and are instructed in the legalities of a business that is against the law in the eyes of the federal government...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/25/health/main3874664.shtml

 

[WhoWee]

Here's a radical idea...let the families police the problem.

If someone of ANY age is arrested for SELLING (small quantities) drugs...instead of jail...reduce government benefits by 50% to the immediate family, second offense reduce to 25% and 3rd offense...cut off all benefits to the immediate family.

Instead of putting the money into the court system...open drug rehab centers that the entire family can visit and work through problems...with the incentive of keeping government benefits and with the possibility of INCREASED benefits if everyone in the family tests clean for 3 mos, 6 mos, etc.

Families need help, communities need help and attitudes and environment need to change...make the problem unacceptable and provide clear incentives to make a change.

 

[Proton Soup]

Here's a radical idea...let the families police the problem.

If someone of ANY age is arrested for SELLING (small quantities) drugs...instead of jail...reduce government benefits by 50% to the immediate family, second offense reduce to 25% and 3rd offense...cut off all benefits to the immediate family.

Instead of putting the money into the court system...open drug rehab centers that the entire family can visit and work through problems...with the incentive of keeping government benefits and with the possibility of INCREASED benefits if everyone in the family tests clean for 3 mos, 6 mos, etc.

Families need help, communities need help and attitudes and environment need to change...make the problem unacceptable and provide clear incentives to make a change.

lol, that is an excellent recipe for getting the whole family into the business. you not only arrested a breadwinner, you took away their bread.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Did anyone see the investigative report last night about pot growers Mendocino County? If they were all shut down, allegedly the county would go broke.

The reality of the economics is really hitting home; esp with the recession.

 

[LowlyPion]

Here's a fun observation:

Marijuana Legalization More Popular than Key Conservative Leaders

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/a...ore_popular_than_key_conservative_leaders.php

 

[Proton Soup]

Here's a fun observation:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/a...ore_popular_than_key_conservative_leaders.php

yeah, but liberals enjoy oppressing the public with the police as much or more than conservatives. and marijuana is the easy way into a vehicle or residence.

 

[WhoWee]

lol, that is an excellent recipe for getting the whole family into the business. you not only arrested a breadwinner, you took away their bread.

I would argue that the needs of the group outweigh the needs of one irresponsible member. If the "bread" is baked by Uncle Sam...you better do what you need to keep it coming.

But, if that's the way they choose to help with the problem (everyone start selling drugs...then cut them ALL off (from government funding social security/disability/medicare/Section8/food stamps/EIC and whatever else)...next! It's not an unreasonable requirement...don't allow anyone living under your roof to break the law or you lose your benefits.

For the "poor little misunderstood rich kid" that chooses to deal drugs to pay for his habit (or meet girls or whatever?)...use the opposite approach...increase dad's taxes by 25% if he doesn't deal with the problem the first time.

Rich or poor...keep it in the family.

 

[dlgoff]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/25/health/main3874664.shtml

For $200 and the cost of two required textbooks, students learn how to cultivate and cook with cannabis,...

You think the textbooks are copies of High Times? I remember seeing this magazine back in the 70s. I wonder if it still exist?

 

[LowlyPion]

You think the textbooks are copies of High Times? I remember seeing this magazine back in the 70s. I wonder if it still exist?

http://hightimes.com/

 

[mbisCool]

An article about two bills in the state of Washington made the cover of the Seattle Times just the other day, they would make possession a fine payable by mail; not that they will go through. One reason argued was that Washington should wait till the Federal Government takes marijuana out of schedule 1. Since congress won't even pass a bill to stop the prosecution of medical marijuana patients I see this as unlikely in the forseeable future :(

Its up to the west coast to change the country!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is what we saw.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/28281668?__source=vty|marijuanainc|&par=vty

Pot growers thrive in Northern California
Cash crop now accounts for two-thirds of Mendocino County economy

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28354324/

 

[Proton Soup]

You think the textbooks are copies of High Times? I remember seeing this magazine back in the 70s. I wonder if it still exist?

walk in your local barnes and noble or books-a-million and you will find books on the shelf that explain how to grow pot, and how to do it discretely.

 

[dlgoff]

walk in your local barnes and noble or books-a-million and you will find books on the shelf that explain how to grow pot, and how to do it discretely.

Thanks but no.

 

[z0rn dawg]

Instead of putting the money into the court system...open drug rehab centers that the entire family can visit and work through problems...with the incentive of keeping government benefits and with the possibility of INCREASED benefits if everyone in the family tests clean for 3 mos, 6 mos, etc.

Isn't this discussion about marijuana? From what I understand, marijuana is not physically addictive. Your brain has no physical need to use it. (It all has to do with dopamine and some other stuff.) That being said, rehab centers are usually for physically addictive drugs, not something like marijuana.

Families need help, communities need help and attitudes and environment need to change...make the problem unacceptable and provide clear incentives to make a change.

I totally agree that communities need help. However, drugs are looked down upon. I think it's just a different community or group that looks down upon it. It's a way of life for some people though. If the community in which they live does not look down upon it though, why should the user?

 

[mbisCool]

When I got a court ordered drug assessment at a treatment center it was a joke. The place is obviously for people with real drug problems eg. heroin. You go to benefit from group session and the questions they ask are obviously directed to real drug abusers such as getting withdrawals when you discontinue...

My biggest withdrawal symptom, periodic boredom?

I don't think sending kids to outpatient for marijuana really does anything...

 

[mbisCool]

A friend of mine was pulled over the other day. The washington state trooper confiscated her pipe, lighter, about 3/4 ounce of marijuana, not her scale which is covered in keif, and didnt cite her for anything. I suspect foul play here!

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Ivan I've been hearing commercials on the radio lately for a company that sells hydroponic equipment for organic growers. I think your links spread a bit of light on that.

A friend of mine was pulled over the other day. The washington state trooper confiscated her pipe, lighter, about 3/4 ounce of marijuana, not her scale which is covered in keif, and didnt cite her for anything. I suspect foul play here!

that's common in some places around here. some cops don't realyy care that much about marijuana use but they have to do something or they can get in trouble. just last night at work I had to call the police on a resident who turned out to be on probation and whose apartment was very obviously hotboxed. the officer gave him a hard time and threatened to search the apartment but decided in the end that he had better things to be doing.