News Is Mitt Romney the Right Choice for the GOP in 2024?

[gravenewworld]

Even better now that newt is ahead. This class of gop candidates are the worst in years. If newt gets picked I can't wait until his ties with Fannie and Freddy get exposed more. It blows my mind how poor people in the south always vote for gop candidates like Romney or newt, they're completely opposite of them and most interests of the American middle class.

 

[skippy1729]

Even better now that newt is ahead. This class of gop candidates are the worst in years. If newt gets picked I can't wait until his ties with Fannie and Freddy get exposed more. It blows my mind how poor people in the south always vote for gop candidates like Romney or newt, they're completely opposite of them and most interests of the American middle class.

Newt got money from F & F, Obama got money from Resko & Solyndra and a $250K no-show job for his wife as a state legislator. Yawn, nobody cares.

Newt is a street fighter and the perfect candidate to go up against the Chicago machine.

Skippy

 

[skippy1729]

Yes, I think you're right - and it wouldn't even be difficult to paint him as such, since I'm pretty sure he *is* in the 1% (not sure why you call it 'mythical').

This blows my little mind: one poll shows Gingrich leads Romney, 40 to 26%, in the days leading up to the SC primary.

Mythical in the sense that many believe they are some kind of magic cash cow. Taking ALL of their income would not keep the US from falling off the fiscal cliff. Mythical in the sense that life would be better off without them. Without venture capitalists and Wall Street the 99% wouldn't have all their electronic toys, telephones would be tied to walls with cords. We are headed for a controlled statist economy. Remember all the technological advances made by the soviets: a space program that filled cemeteries, bread lines and oh yes, the AK-47 the crown jewel of soviet technology!

Skippy

 

[Rob D]

Newt is a street fighter and the perfect candidate to go up against the Chicago machine.

Yes, and I like his brass and strength on his feet, but I'm afraid of him. I fear anyone who seeks power and wears religion on their sleeve. I'm also afraid that when pushed, he's a loose cannon.

I'm drawn to Romney's calm and cool strength. Here's a clip of him handling a heckler. Mentors, if this is too overtly a campaign statement please take it down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1kotsFYizs&feature=player_embedded

Thanks,
RD

 

[skippy1729]

I fear anyone who seeks power and wears religion on their sleeve. I'm also afraid that when pushed, he's a loose cannon.

Well, most Republicans "wear religion on their sleeves" to pander to their precious evangelicals. As far as Newts temperament, I think it is necessary to actually get things done as house speaker, I've never heard anyone describe Nancy Pelosi as a shrinking violet. While I would expect a strong foreign policy from Newt, I don't foresee any "boots on the ground" or warming up the ICBMs in the bullpen. Of course, this is a subjective judgement on both of our parts. I would support him but I don't see Romney winning.

Skippy

 

[mheslep]

Some earlier Presidential inaugural address, religion-on-the-sleeve pandering:

"...Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

 

[Evo]

Some earlier Presidential inaugural address, religion-on-the-sleeve pandering:

What does Abraham Lincoln, and religious beliefs at that time have to do with Mitt Romney? Let's not get ridiculous.

 

[mheslep]

What does Abraham Lincoln, and religious beliefs at that time have to do with Mitt Romney? Let's not get ridiculous.

Many of the last several posts concern religion. Lincoln's 2nd inaugural address was essentially a sermon. I posted it for context, and was attempting to create some perspective around the idea of politicians wearing their religion "on their sleeve." The idea that of all Republican candidates do so (as posted above) with regard to any reasonable context does not hold up.

 

[ginru]

I'm drawn to Romney's calm and cool strength. Here's a clip of him handling a heckler. Mentors, if this is too overtly a campaign statement please take it down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1kotsFYizs&feature=player_embedded

He seemed conveniently prepared for that situation with a pre-cooked response. He didn't seem as prepared when a reporter confronted him once about his lobbyist friends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG7c7m37geI

I'm curious to see how he reacts or even evolves from losing SC. He's still got the advantage to win the nomination but he can't even unite his own party. Romney seems to depend heavily on that "Winner" aura rather than real speaking talent (Newt) or a substantive message (Paul). Paul is the only one who'd get my vote out of this party, but if that fails then I'd much rather see Newt finish ahead of Romney. Either way the country's still in trouble, but Newt and Obama in a fiery debate would be at the very least interesting.

On another note, I think Romney is misunderstanding people's dislike of him as a wealthy businessman. Americans love the Steve Jobs type of visionary innovator/entrepreneur, but Romney doesn't fit that captivating image. He feels more like the big bad corporate monster that laid them off before Christmas, hit them with shady termination fees and denied their refund claim for a faulty product. It's funny that Newt with his bold nature and "Big Ideas" is actually closer than Romney to the swashbuckling success that Americans admire.

 

[daveb]

http://www.deseretnews.com/m/article/680195957



I hope the gop is dumb enough to elect Romney because he will lose. Romney is another white collar criminal like the ones who tanked the economy in 2008 that know how to finagle the loopholes enough to not get arrested. Not to mention he has millions in offshore accounts most likely to hide from paying taxes. Romney stinks of corruption

HOLY MOLY! I used to work for Damon until a massive layoff in 1996 or so, and I never heard a word about this!

 

[Rob D]

HOLY MOLY! I used to work for Damon until a massive layoff in 1996 or so, and I never heard a word about this!

Hello...Occam here...could it be because it isn't true?

 

[Evo]

Hello...Occam here...could it be because it isn't true?

Do you have anything that shows it's not true?

 

[Rob D]

No, actually that's the reason I voiced it as a question. No matter how supercilious it may have sounded. That's a personal problem of mine, but I'm working on it.

All the best,
Rob

 

[turbo]

I was an employee at a veneer mill when the company was taken over by a competitor in a hostile take-over. It was not pretty. The competitor stripped out all our best equipment, including advanced stuff patented by the long-time owners. That mill-town died when the mill closed. The new "owners" cited "foreign competition" as the main reason that the Bingham mill had to be closed.

Years later, I lost a job in sales and technical service in the paper-mill engineered-fabrics industry when my company was bought out by our nearest competitor in the Northeast. Again, the purchase was predatory. The new owners fired all the sales and technical-service staff, including me. Work for an older company with adequately-funded insurance and retirement funds? You are at risk for take-over from people who want to strip the value out of your company and slash jobs.

This is the type of business that "mittens" was involved in. The article that GNW linked was apparently well-researched, and probably had a lot of truth in it. As an editor for a respected news-outlet, you don't permit "factual" articles (vs opinion) to be printed about a powerful person with hundreds of millions of dollars in assets, unless you have vetted the articles. I tend to believe that article (in spirit, if not in all the details) because I have been thrown out of jobs due to a couple of hostile take-overs in the last 40 years.

 

[turbo]

^ People who have been around long enough to see companies destroyed when their pension funds were supposedly "overfunded" and were taken over, and lost their jobs due to predatory tactics used by "venture" capitalists may never be persuaded to pull the lever for Mitt. He is out-of-touch with voters, IMO, and older voters especially. Too many of us have been on the receiving end of his brand of capitalism. He seems like an earnest and pleasant guy, but I think his past will haunt him. That leaves Gingrich as the "inevitable" candidate and he has even more personal (and belt-way) baggage to be seriously considered in the general election.

 

[turbo]

Can Romney survive tonight's debate? I generally don't watch these, but I may tonight.

 

[AlephZero]

There's an iinteresting take on this in an op-ed piece in today's Financial Times. Why is MR being so defensive about all this. He could be plugging the message "Sure I have a track record as a company turnround specialist, and that's exactly the skill set that is needed to downsize the bloat in Washington."

Why shouldn't that play well with what the FT describes as "the world's most capitalist poltical party"?

This could turn into a war of attrition between the anybody-but-MR and anybody-but-NG campaigns, and that won't do Obama any harm at all IMO.

 

[turbo]

This could turn into a war of attrition between the anybody-but-MR and anybody-but-NG campaigns, and that won't do Obama any harm at all IMO.

Not a bad analysis. Both have so much baggage and negatives that Obama can come out of this looking pretty good.

 

[rhody]

http://mittromney.com/sites/default/files/shared/BelieveInAmerica-PlanForJobsAndEconomicGrowth-Full.pdf

59 Policy Proposals That Will Get America Back To Work
1. Maintain current tax rates on personal income
2. Maintain current tax rates on interest, dividends, and capital gains
3. Eliminate taxes for taxpayers with AGI below $200,000 on interest, dividends, and capital gains
4. Eliminate the death tax
5. Pursue a conservative overhaul of the tax system over the long term that includes lower,
flatter rates on a broader base
6. Reduce corporate income tax rate to 25 percent
7. Pursue transition from “worldwide” to “territorial” system for corporate taxation
8. Repeal Obamacare
9. Repeal Dodd-Frank and replace with streamlined, modern regulatory framework
10. Amend Sarbanes-Oxley to relieve mid-size companies from onerous requirements
11. Ensure that environmental laws properly account for cost in regulatory process
12 Provide multi-year lead times before companies must come into compliance with
onerous new environmental regulations
13. Initiate review and elimination of all Obama-era regulations that unduly burden the economy
14. Impose a regulatory cap of zero dollars on all federal agencies
15. Require congressional approval of all new “major” regulations
16. Reform legal liability system to prevent spurious litigation
17. Implement agreements with Colombia, Panama, and South Korea
18. Reinstate the president’s Trade Promotion Authority
19. Complete negotiations for the Trans-Pacific Partnership
20. Pursue new trade agreements with nations committed to free enterprise and open markets
21. Create the Reagan Economic Zone
22. Increase CBP resources to prevent the illegal entry of goods into our market
23. Increase USTR resources to pursue and support litigation against unfair trade practices
24. Use unilateral and multilateral punitive measures to deter unfair Chinese practices
25. Designate China a currency manipulator and impose countervailing duties
26. Discontinue U.S. government procurement from China until China commits to GPA
27. Establish fixed timetables for all resource development approvals
28. Create one-stop shop to streamline permitting process for approval of common activities
29. Implement fast-track procedures for companies with established safety records to conduct
pre-approved activities in pre-approved areas
30. Amend Clean Air Act to exclude carbon dioxide from its purview
31. Expand NRC capabilities for approval of additional nuclear reactor designs
32. Streamline NRC processes to ensure that licensing decisions for reactors on or adjacent to
approved sites, using approved designs, are complete within two years
33. Conduct comprehensive survey of America’s energy reserves
34. Open America’s energy reserves for development
35. Expand opportunities for U.S. resource developers to forge partnerships with neighboring countries
36 Support construction of pipelines to bring Canadian oil to the United States
37. Prevent overregulation of shale gas development and extraction
38 Concentrate alternative energy funding on basic research
39. Utilize long-term, apolitical funding mechanisms like ARPA-E for basic research
40. Appoint to the NLRB experienced individuals with respect for the rule of law
41. Amend NLRA to explicitly protect the right of business owners to allocate their capital as they see fit
42. Amend NLRA to guarantee the secret ballot in every union certification election
43. Amend NLRA to guarantee that all pre-election campaigns last at least one month
44. Support states in pursuing Right-to-Work laws
45. Prohibit the use for political purposes of funds automatically deducted from worker paychecks
46. Reverse executive orders issued by President Obama that tilt the playing field toward organized labor
47. Eliminate redundancy in federal retraining programs by consolidating programs and funding streams,
centering as much activity as possible in a single agency
48. Give states authority to manage retraining programs by block granting federal funds
49. Facilitate the creation of Personal Reemployment Accounts
50. Encourage greater private sector involvement in retraining programs
51. Raise visa caps for highly skilled workers
52. Grant permanent residency to eligible graduates with advanced degrees in math, science,
and engineering
53. Immediately cut non-security discretionary spending by 5 percent
54. Reform and restructure Medicaid as block grant to states
55. Align wages and benefits of government workers with market rates
56. Reduce federal workforce by 10 percent via attrition
57. Cap federal spending at 20 percent of GDP
58. Undertake fundamental restructuring of government programs and services
59. Pursue a Balanced Budget Amendment

Nice find Oltz, a pithy summary of his positions on everything that matters to him. If I could listen to a speech from each of the candidates like this addressing each item, I might be drawn into the political process, without it I am afraid that I will be a lurker at the fringe.

Off topic, RobD, every time I see your Avatar of Feynman, it reminds me of how much I miss him and how we need more great physicists like him. Thanks for the reminder.

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

Nice find Oltz, a pithy summary of his positions on everything that matters to him. If I could listen to a speech from each of the candidates like this addressing each item, I might be drawn into the political process, without it I am afraid that I will be a lurker at the fringe.

I can make a list too, anyone can, how will these be done and why, what are the pros and cons, and can or should they be done and how will each one of these supposedly help the mid to lower classes? Obviously I don't see a lot of these as being good for anyone but the rich and the business owners. Repeal the death tax? Yeah, that's going to help me...NOT.

For deaths occurring in 2011, up to $5,000,000 can be passed from an individual upon his or her death without incurring federal estate tax.[2]

How many members here are planning to inherit more than $5 million?

I personally disagree with half of that list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

 

[rhody]

I can make a list too, anyone can, how will these be done and why, what are the pros and cons, and can or should they be done and how will each one of these supposedly help the mid to lower classes? Obviously I don't see a lot of these as being good for anyone but the rich and the business owners. Repeal the death tax? Yeah, that's going to help me...NOT. How many members here are planning to inherit more than $5 million?

I personally disagree with half of that list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

Yeah some things on his list bother me too Evo. I have been to political rallies before, and I must say, no hard questions were asked. I felt cheated and a fool for playing the game and wasting my time, you know me by now, no BS kind of guy, who do what he says he will. I would make a horrible politician, I would offend everyone in some way or other.

Inherit 5 million ? Wouldn't that be nice...

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

I can make a list too, anyone can, how will these be done and why, what are the pros and cons, and can or should they be done and how will each one of these supposedly help the mid to lower classes?

It's easy to make bullet-point lists with no details. It's also easy for the "faithful" to fall in behind you and read their own wishes and preconceptions into each of the points. Until perceptive people start tearing apart that list and asking for details, Romney is off-the-hook as an "idea man". I'm not surprised that his list is so long and wide-ranging. Can't really hurt him in the debates.

Also, has anybody bothered to notice that the President can't legislate? He can propose and he can twist some arms or perhaps even offer to trade key administrative appointments for favorable legislative votes, but until a law comes across his desk, he has no real authority under the Constitution. He can sign, veto, or pocket.

 

[AlephZero]

Also, has anybody bothered to notice that the President can't legislate?

Nah, you're never going to get elected that way. Only democrat presidents can't legislate, if you are a Republican.

 

[ThomasT]

... I don't see a lot of these as being good for anyone but the rich and the business owners. ...

Yeah, Romney's definitely a status quo guy. Not that that's entirely bad. But it isn't particularly inspiring, and doesn't seem to offer any real improvements that would benefit the majority of Americans.

Romney's undoubtedly smart, a good family man, emotionally/behaviorally stable, and he doesn't "wear his religion on his sleeve". I think he'll win the GOP nomination primarily because people will find less to not like about him than the other GOP candidates.

But I predict that, wrt one on one debates with Obama, Romney will tend to project that shallow "used car salesman", political opportunist, pro-corporation, anti-populist sort of image, while Obama's rhetoric will again tend to inspire (even if Obama's disappointed a lot of people wrt his first term).

 

[russ_watters]

Do you have anything that shows it's not true?

Which part? The "another white collar criminal" part is quite a stretch from "most legally thorny", which is all the article says. I'd say gravennewworld has come nowhere close to the burden of proof required to make such a claim.

 

[Oltz]

I can make a list too, anyone can, how will these be done and why, what are the pros and cons, and can or should they be done and how will each one of these supposedly help the mid to lower classes? Obviously I don't see a lot of these as being good for anyone but the rich and the business owners. Repeal the death tax? Yeah, that's going to help me...NOT. How many members here are planning to inherit more than $5 million?

I personally disagree with half of that list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

Evo that is the Point right now you are taxed on ALL inheritance he (and many others) want to roll that up to 5 Million so when You inherit your 100K or whatever its yours with no tax bill as who ever earned it was already taxed on those earnings.

I know a fam ily who ran a Bakery they had roughly 2 Million in equipment and property involved in the bussiness. The Father passed suddenly and they litterally had to sell off a 30% interest in the family bussness to pay the inheritance tax on the company or fold.

I do not know what your situation is you may inherit debt but if you have any real amount of money in your future rolling the death tax up to 5 Million is for you.

 

[daveb]

Hello...Occam here...could it be because it isn't true?

When I say I never heard about it, I mean the fraud that was committed, not Romney's involvement or non-involvement in it. Then again, management kept us in the dark about most things as they ran the company into the ground.

 

[CAC1001]

^ People who have been around long enough to see companies destroyed when their pension funds were supposedly "overfunded" and were taken over, and lost their jobs due to predatory tactics used by "venture" capitalists may never be persuaded to pull the lever for Mitt. He is out-of-touch with voters, IMO, and older voters especially. Too many of us have been on the receiving end of his brand of capitalism. He seems like an earnest and pleasant guy, but I think his past will haunt him. That leaves Gingrich as the "inevitable" candidate and he has even more personal (and belt-way) baggage to be seriously considered in the general election.

Private equity isn't all about vulture capitalism. Vulturing is one type of private equity, but there are others. What is interesting is that one would think that if Romney was of the vulture sort of capitalist, he would have been fully prepared to handle any such attack on his background in that sense.

And if he is not the vulture capitalist, one would think he would still be prepared as his opponents will try to make him out to be the vulture type. He needs to point out that in the process of turning certain companies around, you sometimes have to fire people to prevent the whole company from going under. This is exactly what President Obama did with GM and Chrysler to save them. People got laid off, dealerships were closed, but it was to save the companies (well actually the auto unions really I think) from going under.

It really is strange, the GOP were practically given this election, but I feel they are handing it over on a silver platter to the Democratic party simply on the basis of having such horrible candidates.

 

[Evo]

On the tax question I think Romney should say,

"I paid $3 million in taxes in 2010."

In answer to follow up questions about percentages, he should say,

"I paid $3 million in taxes in 2010. I gave away another $3 million in charitable donations in 2010"

of which half actually went to the incredibly wealthy Mormon Church, not really a charity, IMO, but did lower his taxes.

http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/24/10222105-q-a-what-romneys-tax-returns-reveal-and-omit

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mitt-romney-tax-returns-show-more-43-million-135129751.html

 

[ThomasT]

I'm wondering, can a reasonable, critically thinking person truly be a Mormon? The whole scenario just seems silly to me. But that's, of course, just my perspective and opinion.

But I have to wonder about an apparently intelligent person who gives millions of dollars to such a religious establishment. So, I wonder about Romney.

He seems like a good and smart person. But he's a self professed Mormon. So, I have to consider the possibility that he's somewhat willfully ignorant. And I don't want a willfully ignorant person to hold the highest administrative position in the US.