News Is Offshore Oil Drilling Truly Safe?

[turbo]

Obama has taken responsibility for this event. Carville might prove more productive if he supported him?

That would be productive and (dare I say?) adult.

 

[Proton Soup]

Obama has taken responsibility for this event. Carville might prove more productive if he supported him?

if they don't make some noise down in LA, there may not be much left. they'll end up ignored by the rest of the country just like after Katrina. it's really the only way to assure that Obama does do anything, make him look like Bush if he doesn't.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The newest BP commercial is too much.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2734843#post2734843

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Obama has taken responsibility for this event. Carville might prove more productive if he supported him?

He gave Obama an out: He allows that Obama has not been appropriately informed about the degree of damage to the breeding wetlands, of Louisiana. This is a huge issue as a majority of the life found in the gulf is apparently tied to these wetlands - I think the number cited once was 80 or 90%? I'm not sure of the number but it was surprisingly high.

Carville has stated publically that after Obama visits tomorrow, he had better take action to save the wetlands, immediately. Well, not in so many words. More along the lines of, "Obama is too smart to not understand this". From what I have heard about these wetlands, it sounds like Carville is dead on target. These wetlands must be saved. I do know that today, tentative approval to start construction of some levies was given. These are intended to protect some of the most sensitive areas.

Part of the problem seems to be that State officials have one set of plans, but the Army Corp of Engineers may have another. If the two sets of plans don't agree, tempers flare. However, based on what some local officials are saying, there are critical breeding grounds taking huge hits, with more every day, that have been ignored.

The oil is just starting to hit. Imagine, there is already another 35 days of oil on its way! According to a PBS newshour report, tonight, there is a 20 mile long oil slick below the surface, on its way to Alabama.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I still think the best idea so far is the one suggested by the former CEO of Shell. Get every available tanker [and every ship with significant pump and storage capacity, for that matter] to start vacuuming the oil and water. Separate the oil and water later. And quit using the dispersant. It been done sucessfully before. In that case, they actually surrounded the leak with tankers.

 

[Proton Soup]

The newest BP commercial is too much.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2734843#post2734843

 

[Proton Soup]

Carville has stated publically that after Obama visits tomorrow, he had better take action to save the wetlands, immediately. Well, not in so many words. More along the lines of, "Obama is too smart to not understand this". From what I have heard about these wetlands, it sounds like Carville is dead on target. These wetlands must be saved. I do know that today, tentative approval to start construction of some levies was given. These are intended to protect some of the most sensitive areas.
.

methinks ol' snakehead is having the time of his life

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/526/u0i3z.jpg

 

[mheslep]

I still think the best idea so far is the one suggested by the former CEO of Shell. Get every available tanker [and every ship with significant pump and storage capacity, for that matter] to start vacuuming the oil and water. Separate the oil and water later. And quit using the dispersant. It been done sucessfully before. In that case, they actually surrounded the leak with tankers.

Yes, I would like to know why that wasn't done weeks ago, or if not have a very good technical reason provided.

 

[Geigerclick]

Yes, I would like to know why that wasn't done weeks ago, or if not a very good technical reason provided.

Our government is too cheap and incompetent to take this action?

 

[pallidin]

Our government is too cheap and incompetent to take this action?

Incompetent? Sort of. Obama stated yesterday that BP and other oil companies have superior technology.
Too cheap? No. BP will be paying all costs, not the government. However, the problem with that is that I suspect oil prices will rise to compensate BP expenditure, effectively costing them nothing. Seems so unfair and no real incentive to correct poor practices.

 

[turbo]

Offshore drilling can be made safer (not safe) with some common-sense regulations. Every oil rig should have BOP with a shearing device that can cut the high-tensile steels used in modern piping, AND the cut-off device must be tested and certified before the BOP can be deployed. Every BOP must be tested regularly - probably on the order of once a week - to ensure that it can isolate the well-head from the pipes leading to the rig.

Now if someone can come up with a way of staging and employing adequate resources to minimize the effects of any spill... It's evident that BP was grossly under-prepared for a spill of this magnitude, and their containment measures have been "oops" moments. The use of dispersants should be studied and perhaps more tightly regulated, as well. Anything that makes the oil harder to recover from sea-water makes pumping/mechanical separation efforts just that much more expensive and ineffective.

Edit: The BOPs must also be redesigned so the valves are held open by signal/power from the rig, and on the loss of signal/power, they fail to the closed position. This is a last line of safety, should a rig be damaged, as in this case. The current lack of such elementary safety engineering is quite troubling. I worked for many years in the pulp and paper industry, with concentration on the operation of very dangerous Kraft chemical-recovery boilers. The boiler systems had to be designed to prevent catastrophic failure (boom!) and a critical, basic part of that design was specifying failure positions (closed, open, last position, etc) for critical valves. Those systems were required to be tested periodically, and if they failed, the operator could lose insurance coverage and operating license until the system was repaired and recertified.

 

[Geigerclick]

Incompetent? Sort of. Obama stated yesterday that BP and other oil companies have superior technology.
Too cheap? No. BP will be paying all costs, not the government. However, the problem with that is that I suspect oil prices will rise to compensate BP expenditure, effectively costing them nothing. Seems so unfair and no real incentive to correct poor practices.

I'll believe that BP will pay AFTER they have paid, or not as the case may be. The Exxon Valdez certainly doesn't inspire confidence that we can get the necessary funding, or that our government will use them as intended.

 

[turbo]

Apparently, BP hired a bunch of temporary workers to work on cleaning the beaches in Grand Isle, then bussed them right back out as soon as Obama's entourage left. Locals are pretty ticked off at the deception, with good reason.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2320

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Even BP now admits the worst

BP has already tried junk shots. The latest is that it will be another 48 hours before they know if the top kill, and now, junk shots, work. Note that in the beginning, it was suggested that we would know in about four hours; after four hours, they said 24 hours; after 24 hours, they said 24-48 hours; and now, 24 hours later, they say it will be another 48 hours.

Chief Executive Officer Tony Hayward called an “environmental catastrophe"...

The well has been spewing an estimated 12,000 to 19,000 barrels of oil a day into the Gulf, a U.S. government panel said yesterday. The midpoint of that estimate would make it the nation’s largest oil spill on record and more than twice as big as the Exxon Valdez disaster in 1989.

“This is clearly an environmental catastrophe,” Hayward said today in a CNN television interview. He also called the situation “a very significant environmental crisis”...

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-28/bp-uses-junk-shot-calls-oil-spill-a-catastrophe-update1-.html

 

[mheslep]

Apparently, BP hired a bunch of temporary workers to work on cleaning the beaches in Grand Isle, then bussed them right back out as soon as Obama's entourage left. Locals are pretty ticked off at the deception, with good reason.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2320

Maybe more than BP had a hand in

News of 11th-hour spruce-up brigade spread rapidly Friday afternoon and infuriated locals. One popular radio host, WWL's Spud McConnell, suggested that the Coast Guard and the White House may have been involved in setting up the "perfect photo op."

 

[magpies]

What I ment to say was you ya obama should have to clean up the oil himself with a shovel.

 

[turbo]

Spud McConnell is a right-wing radio host, so he's not much of a source absent some investigation or inside sources - just wishful speculation hoping for a scandal. I'm surprised Limbaugh didn't beat him to it.

 

[mheslep]

Spud McConnell is a right-wing radio host, so he's not much of a source absent some investigation or inside sources - just wishful speculation hoping for a scandal. I'm surprised Limbaugh didn't beat him to it.

There are only two sources in the article: McConnell and that Councilman. Pick your poison.

 

[Geigerclick]

What I ment to say was you ya obama should have to clean up the oil himself with a shovel.

Seriously, what do people expect him to do? I understand outrage at mistakes which led to this, but it's not as though we can send the man down 5000' with a giant cork. Some people really worry me.

 

[magpies]

Hey by his own words it's his responsiblity.

 

[Geigerclick]

Hey by his own words it's his responsiblity.

Yes, it is, but that doesn't mean that he can warp reality to his whim and plug the leak, or clean the oceans. He's just a politician, like any other.

 

[magpies]

Yes, it is, but that doesn't mean that he can warp reality to his whim

Careful he might hear you say that.

 

[jreelawg]

"Revolving door with industry
The Project On Government Oversight (POGO) alleges that MMS has suffered from a systemic revolving door problem between the Department of Interior and the oil and gas industries. Thirteen months after departing as MMS director, Bush appointee Randall Luthi became president of the National Oceans Industries Association (NOIA) whose mission is to "to secure reliable access and a favorable regulatory and economic environment for the companies that develop the nation's valuable offshore energy resources in an environmentally responsible manner."[36] Luthi succeeded Tom Fry, who was MMS director under the Clinton administration. Luthi and Fry represented precisely the industries their agency was tasked with being a watchdog over.[37] Lower level administrators influencing MMS have also gone on to work for the companies they once regulated:[38]
Paul Stang served as Regional Supervisor for Leasing and Environment for MMS[39], then went to work for Shell Oil Company in 2007 on its Arctic Ocean programs.[40]
Greg Smith served as the Deputy Program Manager of the Royalities in Kind (RIK) program between 2001 and 2004. Thereafter until 2007 he was director of RIK.[13] POGO's report states that when he was working on the RIK program, Smith received $30,000 from Geomatrix, an oil industry consulting firm. After leaving government, Smith went to work for Tenaska Marketing Ventures, described on their website as a "leading marketer of natural gas in North America".
Jimmy Mayberry served as Special Assistant to the Associate Director of Minerals Revenue Management (MRM), managed by MMS, from 2000 to January 2003. After he left, he created an energy consulting company that was awarded an MMS contract via a rigged bid. He was convicted along with a former MMS coworker Milton Dial who also came to work at the company. Both were found guilty of felony violation of conflict of interest law.[41][42][43]
L. Poe Leggette served as Assistant Solicitor for DOI for over a decade, advising the MMS on their onshore and offshore energy programs, as well as royalty valuation issues. He now heads the Western Lands and Energy Practice at Fulbright & Jaworski whose clients are the oil and gas industries.[44]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerals_Management_Service#Revolving_door_with_industry


Here is one of the problems.

I have had the idea before that the revolving door scam should be made illegal after the Bovin growth Hormone scam involving Monsanto and the FDA. This type of thing is all too common. People regulate an industry, and then suspiciously work for the people they were supposed to regulate making millions of dollars. It is a convenient way to bribe your way into controlling the government and regulations.

 

[jreelawg]

Sex drugs and oil

"In his report, the inspector general said some MMS workers in the royalty-in-kind program took cocaine and marijuana and had "illicit sexual encounters."

Government workers also got drunk at social events with employees of oil companies doing business with the agency and MMS workers had "brief sexual relationships" with industry contacts, the inspector general said."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1134230020080911

 

[magpies]

Reminds me of the storys I heard of one of the reps in my state... cocaine women on a boat galore.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The top kill and junk shots have officially failed. Next, the "lower marine riser package", which appears to be a top hat configuration intended to capture most of the flow, will be tried. They will need to cut the riser pipe at the bop, in order to sit the LMRP onto the bop. Cutting the riser pipe will cause the oil flow to increase, but BP has calculated that the flow should not change significantly.
- As per a news conference with the Coast Guard, and BP, that just ended.

Late Edit: They do sound pretty confident that they can capture most of the oil this way. As I understand this, by intercepting the effluent pipe right at the BOP, they should prevent water from mixing with the oil, which is believed to be what caused clathrates to form, which in turn stopped the flow into the riser pipe to the ship, when they first tried the top hat and dome.

 

[Proton Soup]

when does all the damage to our coasts start ? obama is telling everyone to go to the beach.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

when does all the damage to our coasts start ? obama is telling everyone to go to the beach.

Oil has already penetrated some of Louisiana's critical wetlands [breeding grounds] - home to 90% of the life in the Gulf of Mexico. These are the areas under the greatest threat. The oil will go where the wind and ocean currents take it. Right now, most areas have not been affected. The oil is still a few miles or more offshore. However, some communities have reported that people are getting sick from chemicals in the wind. I think only three beaches have been closed. Some shrimpers are still being allowed to operate. Plumes have been detected at depth - not floating as one would expect - which is thought to be how some of the La. wetlands were hit. No one saw a slick coming, but suddenly, the oil was there in the marshes. It is believed that a submerged, 20 mile long slick, is heading to Alabama.

From yesterday's news
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/28/AR2010052802346.html

 

[magpies]

I suspect the oil stench has to build up before all the plant / animal life dies.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I suspect the oil stench has to build up before all the plant / animal life dies.

It's the oil that does the damage. The stench is a new problem altogether.