Is Over-Studying Detrimental to a Mathematician's Success?

[Bourbaki1123]

That is their problem. Are they hurting anyone or breaking any laws? No. I also doubt most people who want to study that much have the idea they'll become the next Einstein or Tesla, and if that is the case, then I agree that they should not study that much. But if they are studying that much out of pure interest and not harming anyone or breaking any laws, then I say more power to them. If anything, I envy them and their resolve. You may call it unhealthy, but there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with what they are doing.

Plus, people tend to be very hand-wavy when it comes to declaring something unhealthy. I don't listen to them unless they can produce some journal articles that support their point. Usually they can't, or if they do the articles are only loosely related. In the latter case I have to insist that they at least give an overview of how the articles support their claims.

That said, there is the worrisome notion presented in the OP that he will become like Perlman, which is highly unlikely.

 

[Bourbaki1123]

I just feel that if I don't study that much I will not amount to anything. I used to study 10 hours a day two years ago and my grades jumped up a lot. Like I was getting 85-90% in subjects. However, friends on another forum and friends at uni said that I needed to balance life and I started to do less and less work.

Actually, I'm a bit confused. Isn't 70% the cutoff for a first class degree? I know you wanted to catch back up grade-wise, but wouldn't your time studying be better spent if you divided it up among the subjects that interest you? I expect having the background to do research and maybe pull off a publication or two by the time you graduate would be significantly more useful if you're going to be putting in that much time. Maybe you should find a professor who is willing to work with you, one who specializes in an area you're interested in.

 

[Pengwuino]

That is their problem. Are they hurting anyone or breaking any laws? No. I also doubt most people who want to study that much have the idea they'll become the next Einstein or Tesla, and if that is the case, then I agree that they should not study that much. But if they are studying that much out of pure interest and not harming anyone or breaking any laws, then I say more power to them. If anything, I envy them and their resolve. You may call it unhealthy, but there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with what they are doing.

Emphasis mine.

Although in the end, I have no interest in how the OP turns out and if he makes a rational decision to do this insane idea, so be it.

 

[Lavabug]

Firstly I suffer badly from so called health anxiety so what ever I do I would worry a lot about dying. But, why does health come first? at the end of the day I'm going to die. Could either die doing great stuff or die doing mediocre stuff. That's how I see it.

Do I really need to answer this for you? Have you ever tried studying under a cold with high fever, back pain from excessive sedentarianism, or any other ailment? Because with your lifestyle that's what you're asking for. Improper sleeping/eating, lack of exercise and continual mental stress is a surefire way to weaken your immune system. You're going to be feeling pretty brilliant when that happens.

 

[micromass]

I have been thinking about stuff for the past half a year. I did some stuff I'm not proud off and failed to be logical. I suppose I'm heavily influenced by Buddhism, but there is a concept of Enlightenment. In strong way I see knowledge as Enlightenment and studying as meditation. Some Buddhist monks meditate 15 hours a day.

Meditation \neq studying. Meditation is quite the opposite of studying.

A lot is probably genetics. From the age of 7 I thought I was going to become next Einstein. Can't really turn that off like if I had no OCD would probably be a lot different. Personally the stress of trying to balance life is greater than if I did Maths. Like I worry a lot about my niece and if I got a gf I would have to deal with stuff like getting cheated on.

If you have OCD, then seek professional help. There are medications out there which can really help you. If you don't seek help, then it will only get worse. I'm talking from personal experience.

 

[simplicity123]

This reminds me of the assertion (which was given in jest, but I think has a great deal of truth to it) that if Ed Witten had AIDS we would already have a cure. I really enjoy pure mathematics research, but I know in my heart of hearts that it is one of the least socially useful things I could be doing. I try (within fairly narrow bounds, admittedly) to balance it out with learning biology and neuroscience, which are significantly more relevant (aging research in particular is an interest of mine, and I wish I knew significantly more about the mechanics of the theories), in the hopes that I can eventually do some kind of useful applied work that ends up making some kind of difference.

There really isn't any room for self-righteousness in mathematics or theoretical physics.

I see it the other way round. People lives are really not worth it and it would be a waste of time trying to cure cancer if you could say figure out something interesting in Physics. Like what if Turing thought his work with computer was rubbish and instead he focused on his biological theories, we wouldn't have computers.

How is that even witty? I'm being completely, 100% honest. If he was a legitimate genius, the idea of studying 15 hours a day in seclusion wouldn't even be an option. As another posters has already pointed out, when do you eat? When do you use the bathroom? How do you prevent burn out? Anyone who had even a little sense to them would know this is 100% impossible.I can't believe some people in here aren't calling him out on this crap. Let's face it, it's all well and dandy to think you're Einstein at age 7, but at some point you have to realize you're not a genius. You can be smart, as he's shown competence in his areas of interest, but genius is something that not only you know, but people around you can sense or be shown through college work. You'd have been discovered by a professor (remember guys, this is the guy who said that he's bad at calculus and said he can't even subtract simple numbers), and you wouldn't even CONSIDER a 15 hour study schedule. It's unrealistic, and it's down right stupid. Find an area of math that interests you, and work on it, reasonably. The fruits of a focused, 4-5 hour study session a day on a single topic of interest is far more beneficial than this 15 hours a day nonsense.

When did I mention seclusion? I'm not planning to lock myself up in a room and just read books. I plan to go to all lectures, plan to talk to lecturers after the lecture. Plus I plan to try and get more contact with a lecturer I like by doing a project this year when I don't need to. Also, when does anything that you said take time. I can eat and study, I can cook and study. It's only takes me about 20 minutes to cook my dinner anyway.

On genius. I've haven't met someone that was totally beyond me. Intelligence is not static and genius isn't static. I'm not actually bad at calculus, my top grade is an Analysis and second is calculus 90% and then 94%. Also, calculus isn't important. Subtraction isn't important. You guys are just seeing it through Physicists eyes. I can't do calculus now because I haven't needed it for a year. Reject the view genius is born. It isn't.

Actually, I'm a bit confused. Isn't 70% the cutoff for a first class degree? I know you wanted to catch back up grade-wise, but wouldn't your time studying be better spent if you divided it up among the subjects that interest you? I expect having the background to do research and maybe pull off a publication or two by the time you graduate would be significantly more useful if you're going to be putting in that much time. Maybe you should find a professor who is willing to work with you, one who specializes in an area you're interested in.

Well, I'm trying to do that. However, I doubt I would be able to get original research by two years in the very hard subjects I plan to go into. I'm currently working on weaknesses. If I see a weakness I would focus on that. Hence I'm studying number theory right now.

Do I really need to answer this for you? Have you ever tried studying under a cold with high fever, back pain from excessive sedentarianism, or any other ailment? Because with your lifestyle that's what you're asking for. Improper sleeping/eating, lack of exercise and continual mental stress is a surefire way to weaken your immune system. You're going to be feeling pretty brilliant when that happens.

Trust me I feel ill 24/7. I have throat problems that make it feel like I'm being strangled. I've went to the doctors about 40 times and he does nothing through he did give me blood test a lot. Finally one day I went to a doctor and it wasn't my main doctor. He told me that I am fine and that you been hear 40 times already. So always feel ill and it's pointless going to the doctor as they think I'm fine. My family think I'm fine when I complain about throat. So gave up going to doctor and just feel ill 24/7.

 

[hadsed]

You're a little crazy, OP. That can be okay, but I don't think anyone here is going to convince you to not do what you're about to do. Not sure why you would make a thread about it if you're not willing to listen...

But hey, you'll figure out soon enough if it's going to work for you or not. Hopefully you don't burn out, hopefully you don't have any health problems, and hopefully at the end of this you're much better off. You do need to recognize that not one person here has advocated for your idea, so keep that in mind if you're feeling like it's possible you haven't magically morphed into David Hilbert...

 

[Intervenient]

Why did you make this topic simplicity? It seems like you've made this topic not to see if this is feasible or advisable, but just to get a sort of congratulations or provide shock value. Instead of trying to justify our criticism, why not take some advise?As another poster mentioned, keep this thread updated. Very interested in how this all turns out.

 

[Bourbaki1123]

I see it the other way round. People lives are really not worth it and it would be a waste of time trying to cure cancer if you could say figure out something interesting in Physics. Like what if Turing thought his work with computer was rubbish and instead he focused on his biological theories, we wouldn't have computers.

Turing knew what he was doing and saw some of the applications of his work. Plus he was doing his work a century ago. Plus you have to make the assumption that you're as good as Alan Turing in order for this to make any sense.

Besides, I don't even think that's true, Emil Post and Alonzo Church were also doing work in computability that led to equivalent systems.

It is a fact that, unless you make several improbable assumptions, things are not the other way around for you, no matter how you choose to see them.

Why do you think you can be Perelman? Perelman was doing tons of mathematics from the age of 10 and was put through rigorous training regimens, this on top of his great talent. What have you done, mathematically, that is telling you "yeah, I have what it takes to be a world class mathematician, I'm miles ahead of the students at Cambridge and MIT and Harvard" ?

 

[simplicity123]

Why did you make this topic simplicity? It seems like you've made this topic not to see if this is feasible or advisable, but just to get a sort of congratulations or provide shock value. Instead of trying to justify our criticism, why not take some advise?As another poster mentioned, keep this thread updated. Very interested in how this all turns out.

Well, I was actually thinking of taking days off. Like studying 15 hours for four days a week and then taking the rest of the days off. But, now I doubt I will do that, particularly the comments in this thread.

Turing knew what he was doing and saw some of the applications of his work. Plus he was doing his work a century ago. Plus you have to make the assumption that you're as good as Alan Turing in order for this to make any sense.

Besides, I don't even think that's true, Emil Post and Alonzo Church were also doing work in computability that led to equivalent systems.

It is a fact that, unless you make several improbable assumptions, things are not the other way around for you, no matter how you choose to see them.

Why do you think you can be Perelman? Perelman was doing tons of mathematics from the age of 10 and was put through rigorous training regimens, this on top of his great talent. What have you done, mathematically, that is telling you "yeah, I have what it takes to be a world class mathematician, I'm miles ahead of the students at Cambridge and MIT and Harvard" ?

I suppose that was a bad example seeing as Turing was working on computer science to crack German war codes and he was thinking of AI.

On Perelman. Granted he did have very good genetics(his mother was a top mathematician) and had very good training. I'm not saying I'm a world class mathematician I'm saying I can become one. If that was true I would just have to work harder. Plus like ten-twenty years of studying 15 hours a day. You aren't going to be noob.

If I thought I was a genius I would work less. Last year I was studying less and having more fun. Got crappy grades and didn't improve at all. Hence, why I'm now studying crazy hours.

 

[Bourbaki1123]

Well, I was actually thinking of taking days off. Like studying 15 hours for four days a week and then taking the rest of the days off. But, now I doubt I will do that, particularly the comments in this thread.

You might as well spread it out and work some everyday if that is the case (not sure if that's what you mean by doubting your will do that). Also, some amount of exercise tends significantly improve mental quickness and mental functioning in general.

If I thought I was a genius I would work less. Last year I was studying less and having more fun. Got crappy grades and didn't improve at all. Hence, why I'm now studying crazy hours.

If you thought you were a genius, you would work less. That implies that doing/studying mathematics isn't one of the most enjoyable things you could be doing. I mean, if you picked up course material easily and could get a first without much effort, how much do you suppose you would study/do mathematics for simple self-improvment/enjoyment of problems solving? I've always read and done lots of mathematics, but almost none of it was for a class.

 

[simplicity123]

You might as well spread it out and work some everyday if that is the case (not sure if that's what you mean by doubting your will do that). Also, some amount of exercise tends significantly improve mental quickness and mental functioning in general.

To be fair, not going to do that now. Would have to work under the assumption that I'm not a genius. Only thing I can think of is to study crazy hours.

If you thought you were a genius, you would work less. That implies that doing/studying mathematics isn't one of the most enjoyable things you could be doing. I mean, if you picked up course material easily and could get a first without much effort, how much do you suppose you would study/do mathematics for simple self-improvment/enjoyment of problems solving? I've always read and done lots of mathematics, but almost none of it was for a class.

To be fair, poker is more fun than anything. I could play be locked up in jail with only access to online poker and I wouldn't be sad. Through, I have gave up poker for Maths as poker is not useful and very distracting. I was thinking of quitting Maths to do poker when I had bad family issues.

Actually don't struggle with course. Just think it's a waste of time. I plan to study course material only through, like memorize all proofs and go over the stuff repeatedly. I thinking of doing this for the next 2 years and then when got PhD I can study what I want. Just needs the grades first. Plus I'm looking ahead ten to twenty years. Like imagine what I could get done studying 15 hours a day for 40-50 years.

 

[dcpo]

The bottom line is, if you're studying crazy hours because you're an Erdos figure and you can't stop yourself thinking about maths for more than a few minutes then cool, it's a non-standard life but what the hell, it takes all sorts. If you're making yourself study crazy hours because you think this is what you have to do to realize your self diagnosed genius then you're going to be unhappy, and you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Constantinos]

Hey!

I'm not going to question your values, they are fine with me if you are fine with them! I almost like your dedication, and I would really like to be able to dedicate myself in a subject completely (though in a controlled manner i.e, being able to stop it at will and not because of OCD).

But I believe you don't serve your values well with your behavior. If you value to be productive with your work then you have to take care of yourself in order to remain productive. You will not be productive with back pains because of sitting for long hours, or if your movements feel stiff because of lack of exercise, or if you can't get some sleep because you can't stop thinking about some problem (and lack of exercise).

You say that

Spoiler

we are all going to die sometime

and all that and that it would be better dying doing something "great" than nothing. I don't agree with that, but let's suppose it's true. Well then, if you live a longer, healthier life, you have a better chance of doing something "great" than living unhealthy (and possibly shorter because of that) just because you will have more time to do the things you like and during this time, you are more focused because there are no health issues around. But healthy does not equal with your lifestyle.

Think of it this way. You may get 1hour of exercise a day. Then you would study 14 hours, but exercise (especially aerobics) is beneficial to cognitive function. Also, with exercise, you may sleep better and that will also improve cognitive function. Maybe you may even need less sleep, and so you won't lose anything from your studying time AND be more productive during it. Moreover, with an 1hour exercise/day, there are many other health problems you may avoid that come later in your life which would constitute distractions (to say the least) from your work.

So if I were you, I'd first get some exercise everyday, perhaps jogging with a friend (or a professor if you are so inclined to socialize with them). Forget about studying 15 hours a day or any such arbitrary amount. Think about studying as productive as possible.

You may not need exercise, or sleep, or socializing or whatever, because your genes are so bada** that you can do without them. But you can't know the impact of socializing and exercise in your productivity unless you try them. So try them, because they may benefit you!

A more interesting thing though would be to discuss if indeed it is the better life to be dedicated to one subject, or to becoming a big mathematician, or doing "great" things, whatever that means. It is a good thing for one to reexamine one's values from time to time, even if one kept them from an early age, because there is always the probability that one was wrong all along...