Is Over-Studying Detrimental to a Mathematician's Success?

[Nano-Passion]

Repeat this to yourself and see how scary and insane it sounds. You're just going to overload your mind man. Its good to have a passion for learning but mental functionality should come before that. You can't just neglect your girlfriend, other friends, and/or family.

I see this a lot around the forum, but isn't this how a lot of the geniuses were made? Don't geniuses have a fixed obsession of learning certain topics say for example 10 hours a day.

Just a question though. Hope someone would clear that up. Definitely not recommending the original poster to study 15 hours a day.

To OP: You will run into a lot of problems that way. Studying all day with no exercise isn't exactly smart for your health. You only have 9 hours left of the day which you need for sleep. You need time to take breaks or you won't retain the information as much, and you still need to eat, drink, rest, etc.

How long do you think you can sustain 15 hours a day of study? A professor of mine was a mathematician, he told me how he studied 18 hours a day this college summer and he was so out of touch with reality. He told me of the time he went to order grocery food and the lady asked him a question, he whispered, when she said she didn't hear him he raised his voice too much.

Its just an example that extended periods of isolation just isn't THAT great. I see the professor a lot and he sometimes seems really out of touch with reality, I remember speaking with him a couple of times and his mind was completely drifting off somewhere else. Granted though, he is actually my favorite math/physics professor.

 

[lisab]

I see this a lot around the forum, but isn't this how a lot of the geniuses were made? Don't geniuses have a fixed obsession of learning certain topics say for example 10 hours a day.

I bet many of us have known these kind of people, who are completely obsessed and study extremely long hours. But sometimes they are compelled to study by a certain "something" (autism? mental health issues? I don't know).

I don't think their obsession is particularly healthy, either - I've known people who neglect personal hygiene, for example, because they study compulsively.

My point is, I think that "something" - call it genius, I guess - comes first, the compulsive study is a result of that. I don't think someone can become that kind of genius simply by mimicking how they study, or any other compulsive thing they do.

 

[-Dragoon-]

That's not normal tasks, those are the tasks you need to stay alive. Normal tasks are having friends, having social contacts, learning how to interact with other people. Studying a field and having no friends and no job (remember you WILL have to interview for a job and exist in a workplace) is a pathetic life to any standard.

You're projecting your values. One can have social skills without ever having a friend. Some people prefer to study and keep to themselves rather than being social butterflies. Why is this so hard for some people to accept, especially on an educational forum?

 

[Nano-Passion]

I bet many of us have known these kind of people, who are completely obsessed and study extremely long hours. But sometimes they are compelled to study by a certain "something" (autism? mental health issues? I don't know).

I don't think their obsession is particularly healthy, either - I've known people who neglect personal hygiene, for example, because they study compulsively.

My point is, I think that "something" - call it genius, I guess - comes first, the compulsive study is a result of that. I don't think someone can become that kind of genius simply by mimicking how they study, or any other compulsive thing they do.

I agree. One should then do what makes them relatively comfortable. For the OP: If on a certain day you feel particularly passionate about a problem/concept, go ahead, spend as much time as you like. But never try and force yourself to study a certain amount in hopes of being a great mathematician/physicist. It doesn't work that way. If you attempt to do that you will quickly burn yourself out and hurt your education even more.

For an extended period of time I focused on physics and calculus from sleep and back nonstop. It was a sure way to burn myself out. If I had spent 6 hours a day then I would have gotten much more done. But instead I spent the last half of my summer staying away from calculus and physics as a break.

 

[Lavabug]

I've only hit the 15-hour mark on counted occasions, but I'd say 40% of that time wasn't productive (poor concentration from exhaustion, hitting a wall, etc.).

The ratio of productive:ineffective study time doesn't seem to improve for me unless I'm just studying for 1-2 hours, which is way too little anyway.

I agree with "quality over quantity for sure", but unless you're flawlessly efficient with your time, the more the merrier. Just don't pull 12-hour sessions regularly. Get your share of exercise, distractions/vacations, etc every now and then, because your health comes first.

 

[simplicity123]

Ahaaah! that explains it. I'm also guessing your indian or azn and that you have a shytload of fam pressure on you??

Incorrect. I don't get fam pressure. Just from an early age say like five always thought I would be a genius.

To OP: You will run into a lot of problems that way. Studying all day with no exercise isn't exactly smart for your health. You only have 9 hours left of the day which you need for sleep. You need time to take breaks or you won't retain the information as much, and you still need to eat, drink, rest, etc.

How long do you think you can sustain 15 hours a day of study? A professor of mine was a mathematician, he told me how he studied 18 hours a day this college summer and he was so out of touch with reality. He told me of the time he went to order grocery food and the lady asked him a question, he whispered, when she said she didn't hear him he raised his voice too much.

Its just an example that extended periods of isolation just isn't THAT great. I see the professor a lot and he sometimes seems really out of touch with reality, I remember speaking with him a couple of times and his mind was completely drifting off somewhere else. Granted though, he is actually my favorite math/physics professor.

I eat a lot and I actually sleep a lot. Trying to cut down the hours I sleep but finding it impossible.

I don't plan to become anti-social. Just plan to not have any fun and just studying. I plan to talk to the lecturers more than I do now. Also, I might set up study sessions or become a PASS tutor and help out first year student. Becoming anti-social will not make me smarter. Like would want to be more like Paul Erdos for the next couple of years.

I agree with "quality over quantity for sure", but unless you're flawlessly efficient with your time, the more the merrier. Just don't pull 12-hour sessions regularly. Get your share of exercise, distractions/vacations, etc every now and then, because your health comes first.

Firstly I suffer badly from so called health anxiety so what ever I do I would worry a lot about dying. But, why does health come first? at the end of the day I'm going to die. Could either die doing great stuff or die doing mediocre stuff. That's how I see it.

 

[hadsed]

But, why does health come first? at the end of the day I'm going to die. Could either die doing great stuff or die doing mediocre stuff. That's how I see it.

What difference does doing something great vs. mediocre have once you're dead? Yet this:

I don't plan to become anti-social. Just plan to not have any fun and just studying.

has a *HUGE* effect on you... while you're alive (that is, when you feel the consequences of it). You'll burn yourself out, unless it's coming from within yourself. Statements like the one directly above about not having any fun make me think that it's not coming from a deep passion of yours, or that at some point it won't anymore. I had this happen to me, and I was similar to you. I still love physics, but I took about a month or two (thankfully it happened right before summer break started) to read some philosophy and think about that stuff for a while.

You need to be careful, you don't realize that you could ruin your love for mathematics and/or physics if you push yourself too hard. After I was 'recovering' from burnout (I'd taken max loads of all maths and physics classes, plus doing research), it took me a while to get back into it. For some time I thought I'd lost it completely, and it was kind of weird and scary. When that happens, you tend to learn your lesson. If you're going to do 15 hours a day, at least build up to it that way you're able to assess yourself at each step, instead of jumping right in (and possibly drowning).

 

[Mororvia]

If you study 15 hours a day, how would you have any time for PhysicsForums?!

 

[Pengwuino]

You're projecting your values. One can have social skills without ever having a friend. Some people prefer to study and keep to themselves rather than being social butterflies. Why is this so hard for some people to accept, especially on an educational forum?

You, along with others in this thread, are COMPLETELY missing the point. Intentionally devoting all your time to some singular obsession is unacceptable. It is unhealthy; there are PLENTY of studies linking such behavior to depression and reduced life spans. I think the problem is most people that come onto the forum saying "Oh I want to study 58 hours a day 10 days a week! I figured out how to survive on peanuts alone!" have this unrealistic belief deep down that they'll become the next Einstein or Tesla or whatever. And you're basically sacrificing your own life for something, even if it were to happen, would be completely unenjoyable by the person with the obsession.

If this was someone saying he's going to study how to make the best soda 15 hours a day for the rest of his life, people would be saying they need to seek psychiatric help. Remember, just because someone may have an obsession with something you personally enjoy doesn't mean it can't be brought to unhealthy levels.

 

[micromass]

I'd say, if your finals are in three days, then studying 15 hours a day is acceptable. I wouldn't do it, but it's ok.
But studying 15 hours A DAY? That's seriously unhealthy and not productive at all! You're going to be burnt out in a matter of weeks!

I can't believe that people on this thread support this kind of behaviour...

 

[ZenOne]

Agreed Pengwuino...

 

[rootX]

I study more efficiently (more work in less time) when I am studying in a group so I rarely study alone. OP, something to consider ... Also, take care to distinguish between studying for 15 hours and staying in library for 15 hours.

Just do whatever you like, you will find your limits.

P.S. Grigori Perelma is crazy who is leeching off his mother IIRC, SRC: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1686794/posts.

 

[simplicity123]

has a *HUGE* effect on you... while you're alive (that is, when you feel the consequences of it). You'll burn yourself out, unless it's coming from within yourself. Statements like the one directly above about not having any fun make me think that it's not coming from a deep passion of yours, or that at some point it won't anymore. I had this happen to me, and I was similar to you. I still love physics, but I took about a month or two (thankfully it happened right before summer break started) to read some philosophy and think about that stuff for a while.

I have been thinking about stuff for the past half a year. I did some stuff I'm not proud off and failed to be logical. I suppose I'm heavily influenced by Buddhism, but there is a concept of Enlightenment. In strong way I see knowledge as Enlightenment and studying as meditation. Some Buddhist monks meditate 15 hours a day.

You need to be careful, you don't realize that you could ruin your love for mathematics and/or physics if you push yourself too hard. After I was 'recovering' from burnout (I'd taken max loads of all maths and physics classes, plus doing research), it took me a while to get back into it. For some time I thought I'd lost it completely, and it was kind of weird and scary. When that happens, you tend to learn your lesson. If you're going to do 15 hours a day, at least build up to it that way you're able to assess yourself at each step, instead of jumping right in (and possibly drowning).

I don't know. It's sort of like genetics to me. Like I failed Physics(literally got ungraded in Alevels) hence doing Maths, however when I failed it and was depressed the first thing I did was buy a lot of chess books and tried to become a grand master. I'm crap at chess so I never could improve at it.

Don't think failure is part of my genes. Even at my worst moment my brain is thinking of how to go forward.

If you study 15 hours a day, how would you have any time for PhysicsForums?!

I actually came here for advice on PhD. Plus how to study Algebraic geometry and algebraic topology. I plan to get rid of laptop in a week or so.

You, along with others in this thread, are COMPLETELY missing the point. Intentionally devoting all your time to some singular obsession is unacceptable. It is unhealthy; there are PLENTY of studies linking such behavior to depression and reduced life spans. I think the problem is most people that come onto the forum saying "Oh I want to study 58 hours a day 10 days a week! I figured out how to survive on peanuts alone!" have this unrealistic belief deep down that they'll become the next Einstein or Tesla or whatever. And you're basically sacrificing your own life for something, even if it were to happen, would be completely unenjoyable by the person with the obsession.

A lot is probably genetics. From the age of 7 I thought I was going to become next Einstein. Can't really turn that off like if I had no OCD would probably be a lot different. Personally the stress of trying to balance life is greater than if I did Maths. Like I worry a lot about my niece and if I got a gf I would have to deal with stuff like getting cheated on.

I just want life to be simple. But, life is complex and illogical. Episode of heroes. The guy is just using his super powers to save people. I want my future to be just doing Maths like GH Hardy.

If this was someone saying he's going to study how to make the best soda 15 hours a day for the rest of his life, people would be saying they need to seek psychiatric help. Remember, just because someone may have an obsession with something you personally enjoy doesn't mean it can't be brought to unhealthy levels.

Well, soda isn't helpful. In a way if I posted saying I'm going to study 15 hours a day to cure cancer. I bet you would be saying different stuff, especially if one of your family member suffered from it.

I'd say, if your finals are in three days, then studying 15 hours a day is acceptable. I wouldn't do it, but it's ok.
But studying 15 hours A DAY? That's seriously unhealthy and not productive at all! You're going to be burnt out in a matter of weeks!

I can't believe that people on this thread support this kind of behaviour...

Personally when I do burn out I got plans to use it Also, think switching thinking modes will stop that. Let's say I burn out and can no longer write, then I will start to draw pictures. Even burnt out I must be able to do something.

 

[Pengwuino]

A lot is probably genetics. From the age of 7 I thought I was going to become next Einstein. Can't really turn that off like if I had no OCD would probably be a lot different. Personally the stress of trying to balance life is greater than if I did Maths. Like I worry a lot about my niece and if I got a gf I would have to deal with stuff like getting cheated on.

One of the things about having OCD is learning to deal with it. You don't sound like you're dealing with it properly. It's can be a quirk and it can also be a destructive personality disorder.

Well, soda isn't helpful. In a way if I posted saying I'm going to study 15 hours a day to cure cancer. I bet you would be saying different stuff, especially if one of your family member suffered from it.

I have had multiple family members who have died of cancer and have cancer right now. Don't give me that wanna-be self-righteous bs. And trust me, the real life importance of current mathematical research doesn't hold a candle to the research behind cancer treatment.

I would never be so selfish as to demand anyone spend such ridiculous amounts of time trying to cure something that even effects me. Ironically, one of the things people who have dealt with cancer tend to learn is how to appreciate the one life they've been given and the people around them.

 

[Bourbaki1123]

You, along with others in this thread, are COMPLETELY missing the point. Intentionally devoting all your time to some singular obsession is unacceptable. It is unhealthy; there are PLENTY of studies linking such behavior to depression and reduced life spans.

Actually, could you link to these? I'm not sure how they would be tagged, I tried a few google scholar searches but came up empty handed. The search is muddled up by the comorbidity of OCD and depression (which coincidentally is relevant to your point; if this sort of depression is unavoidable for the OCD sufferer, then channeling repetitive behavior into something constructive is good; conversely, it might worsen depression).Anyway, I think we're being a bit vague here; it's probably good to clear this up a bit.

When you're talking about studying 15 hours a day, this conjures up the image of someone sitting for 15 hours with a stack of books, taking notes out of them for 15 hours straight.

Obviously this isn't what you mean, and if it is it doesn't matter because it isn't what you're going to do. You have to take bathroom breaks and eat. In any event, it isn't rational to try to fast all day or to not take breaks. You have to take breaks if you want to optimize your absorption. Preferably a mid-day nap on top of this.

Another option, as was mentioned, is that you actually mean that you're going to the library for 15 hours and will study for the majority of the time you are there, but you will take breaks. That seems more reasonable, though 15 hours at the library still seems a bit extreme.

A further question is; are you going to take a pause to think about the material you have just read and draw out the implications, or are you just going to remember it for a while and use it for a couple of problems and then forget it?

I'm someone who spends the bulk of my time on self improvement. I study math several hours a day (not counting the gaps), I also read articles from other disciplines and I write quite a bit in order to consolidate my thoughts. I practice my music (I'm very proficient at guitar, I practiced 5-8 hours a day for 3 years during high school when I thought I was going to go to music school) and play Go and work out some.

This, to me, feels perfectly balanced. I feel the best when I'm working towards some goal, be it improving to some level of proficiency or solving a problem or writing an article. I am usually working on something, and I am (on average) awake at least 15 hours a day. I think that one can improve most efficiently by improving across multiple areas, this diversifies your day and allows different modes of thinking to come into play.

I also would like to say that I can be very obsessive about my interests at times, even to the point of neglecting my classes in order to study a subject. There have been times when I would feel nothing but anxiety and think of nothing other than the topic whenever I would have to go do something else. I would always enjoy learning about the subject though, so it wasn't as though I felt like I was cutting out fun stuff.

 

[Bourbaki1123]

And trust me, the real life importance of current mathematical research doesn't hold a candle to the research behind cancer treatment.

This reminds me of the assertion (which was given in jest, but I think has a great deal of truth to it) that if Ed Witten had AIDS we would already have a cure. I really enjoy pure mathematics research, but I know in my heart of hearts that it is one of the least socially useful things I could be doing. I try (within fairly narrow bounds, admittedly) to balance it out with learning biology and neuroscience, which are significantly more relevant (aging research in particular is an interest of mine, and I wish I knew significantly more about the mechanics of the theories), in the hopes that I can eventually do some kind of useful applied work that ends up making some kind of difference.

There really isn't any room for self-righteousness in mathematics or theoretical physics.

 

[Intervenient]

I'm going to be blunt: if you think you will actually benefit from 15 hours a day of studying, you're not a genius.

 

[ZenOne]

Good point Intervenient.

In response to rootX--I completely disagree with group study; it is hard enough to dedicate yourself to solid study time, getting a GROUP to truly, efficiently study is an even larger problem IMO. Also, I find group study actually mixes me up for the most part--I know that a lot of people swear by it and I have no problems doing group work but I would NEVER depend on a group to help me understand key concepts; if I do not truly understand the concepts it's my a** on the chopping block. If one wants to supplement with group work--more power to them, however, one must be reasonably efficient in terms of self-study to survive.

 

[joshmadakor]

My my, look at all of these opinions flying around.

 

[Bourbaki1123]

I'm going to be blunt: if you think you will actually benefit from 15 hours a day of studying, you're not a genius.

How witty.

 

[Intervenient]

How witty.

How is that even witty? I'm being completely, 100% honest. If he was a legitimate genius, the idea of studying 15 hours a day in seclusion wouldn't even be an option. As another posters has already pointed out, when do you eat? When do you use the bathroom? How do you prevent burn out? Anyone who had even a little sense to them would know this is 100% impossible.I can't believe some people in here aren't calling him out on this crap. Let's face it, it's all well and dandy to think you're Einstein at age 7, but at some point you have to realize you're not a genius. You can be smart, as he's shown competence in his areas of interest, but genius is something that not only you know, but people around you can sense or be shown through college work. You'd have been discovered by a professor (remember guys, this is the guy who said that he's bad at calculus and said he can't even subtract simple numbers), and you wouldn't even CONSIDER a 15 hour study schedule. It's unrealistic, and it's down right stupid. Find an area of math that interests you, and work on it, reasonably. The fruits of a focused, 4-5 hour study session a day on a single topic of interest is far more beneficial than this 15 hours a day nonsense.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

I haven't read all the posts, but it's really simple you decide what you want to do with your time, all other posts just tell you how other people spend their time.

If you really wanted to do this, you wouldn't waste time asking others for their advice.

 

[atyy]

Is your iPad waterproof? Then you can study in the shower too. That will make it 15 hours and 20 minutes that you can study!

You should study very hard. Then you can make a machine like in Total Recall or the Matrix - then you get get all the knowledge by sitting in the machine, and you wouldn't need to study 15 hours a day.

 

[Intervenient]

Is your ipad waterproof? Then you can study in the shower too. That will make it 15 hours and 20 minutes that you can study!

In light of the rather serious discussion at hand, in my dorm showers last year, if there was a particularly difficult problem, I would often take a wet-erase pen into the shower with me and work on it. Easily my most productive 20 minutes of the day :D

 

[Bourbaki1123]

How is that even witty?

It wasn't.

 

[Bourbaki1123]

Is your iPad waterproof? Then you can study in the shower too. That will make it 15 hours and 20 minutes that you can study!

You should study very hard. Then you can make a machine like in Total Recall or the Matrix - then you get get all the knowledge by sitting in the machine, and you wouldn't need to study 15 hours a day.

Or Battlefield Earth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUzrSAGJW6k"

 

[Intervenient]

It wasn't.

Then why would you even make a comment? Need to be the guy at the party who makes a little remark after something said? Need attention?

 

[Bourbaki1123]

Then why would you even make a comment? Need to be the guy at the party who makes a little remark after something said? Need attention?

Sarcasm. I was jabbing you a bit for making the comment. By the way, I already made essentially the same points you made in your reply several posts back, though I tried to be less hostile about it. I don't like parties. <|;3

 

[-Dragoon-]

You, along with others in this thread, are COMPLETELY missing the point. Intentionally devoting all your time to some singular obsession is unacceptable. It is unhealthy; there are PLENTY of studies linking such behavior to depression and reduced life spans. I think the problem is most people that come onto the forum saying "Oh I want to study 58 hours a day 10 days a week! I figured out how to survive on peanuts alone!" have this unrealistic belief deep down that they'll become the next Einstein or Tesla or whatever. And you're basically sacrificing your own life for something, even if it were to happen, would be completely unenjoyable by the person with the obsession.

If this was someone saying he's going to study how to make the best soda 15 hours a day for the rest of his life, people would be saying they need to seek psychiatric help. Remember, just because someone may have an obsession with something you personally enjoy doesn't mean it can't be brought to unhealthy levels.

That is their problem. Are they hurting anyone or breaking any laws? No. I also doubt most people who want to study that much have the idea they'll become the next Einstein or Tesla, and if that is the case, then I agree that they should not study that much. But if they are studying that much out of pure interest and not harming anyone or breaking any laws, then I say more power to them. If anything, I envy them and their resolve. You may call it unhealthy, but there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with what they are doing.

 

[deluks917]

I wish you the best of luck. After this semester is over please post back explaining what happened. If you are successful in studying effectively 15 hours per day I'd be interested in how you managed it. I'd also be interested to here how much you accomplished.