Is Planet 9 Actually a Primordial Black Hole?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothesis that the conjectured 'Planet 9' in the Solar System might actually be a primordial black hole. Participants explore the implications of this idea, focusing on the characteristics of such a black hole, particularly in relation to Hawking radiation, its intensity, and its expected lifetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference an article suggesting that 'Planet 9' could be a primordial black hole.
  • Questions are raised about the intensity of Hawking radiation from a black hole the size of a tennis ball, with requests for calculations.
  • One participant provides a calculation indicating that a black hole with the mass of Earth would emit a power of 4.8·10-13 W and have a lifetime of approximately 4.7·1013 years, but notes this is speculative.
  • Another participant discusses the relationship between the radius and mass of black holes, suggesting that a tennis ball-sized black hole would have a mass close to that of Uranus.
  • There is mention of a dark matter halo around the black hole, with calculations suggesting it could be around 15% of the black hole's mass.
  • A participant introduces a Hawking radiation calculator, providing various mass and lifetime estimates based on cosmic background radiation temperature.
  • Concerns are expressed that a black hole larger than a certain mass would absorb energy faster than it could emit it through Hawking radiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various calculations and hypotheses regarding the properties of primordial black holes, particularly in relation to Hawking radiation. There is no consensus on the implications or characteristics of such black holes, and multiple competing views remain present.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations depend on specific assumptions about mass and size, and the discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps regarding Hawking radiation and its implications.

Astronomy news on Phys.org
a superdense lump of matter about the size of a tennis ball.

I'm thinking about Hawking radiation.

What is the intensity of radiation from a BH that size?

Because of Hawking radiation, BHs evaporate, giving a lifetime proportional to radius. What is the lifetime of a BH that size?

Who can help us with those calculations?
 
anorlunda said:
What is the intensity of radiation from a BH that size?
[...]
What is the lifetime of a BH that size?

If my calculation is correct, the Hawking radiation of a black hole with the mass of Earth (just as an example) would have a power of 4.8·10-13 W and the lifetime would be 4.7·1013 years. That would be possible in theory. However, it is highly speculaticve. I'm sure there are much better explanations but they are not worth a big headline.
 
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: anorlunda
The radius is directly proportional to mass. A tennis ball has radius between 3.27 cm and 3.43 cm. A solar mass black hole has schwarschild radius 2.94 km. So 1.11 x 10-5 to 1.16 x 10 -5 solar mass, 2.72 to 2.85 Earth mass.
Ping pong balls are nice because they have a 2 cm radius.

anorlunda said:
I'm thinking about Hawking radiation.

What is the intensity of radiation from a BH that size?

Because of Hawking radiation, BHs evaporate, giving a lifetime proportional to radius. What is the lifetime of a BH that size?

Who can help us with those calculations?

The Hawking radiation will be almost trivial. Particles hitting it should give off high energy radiation. Single protons falling in should give off 10-11 Joules. A piece of dust would make a good flair.

The article claims there should be a dark matter halo and a steady supply of dark matter falling in. They calculated the dark matter halo will have around 15% of the black hole's mass (starting at 50%).
DrStupid said:
If my calculation is correct, the Hawking radiation of a black hole with the mass of Earth (just as an example) would have a power of 4.8·10-13 W and the lifetime would be 4.7·1013 years. That would be possible in theory. However, it is highly speculaticve. I'm sure there are much better explanations but they are not worth a big headline.
If we have both rogue planets and primordial black holes the odds of capturing should be proportional to the population ratio of rogue planets and black holes.
 
anorlunda said:
I'm thinking about Hawking radiation.

What is the intensity of radiation from a BH that size?

Because of Hawking radiation, BHs evaporate, giving a lifetime proportional to radius. What is the lifetime of a BH that size?

Who can help us with those calculations?
If I recall correctly, you need a black hole to be something around the mass of the Moon for its Hawking temp to be higher than the cosmic background radiation. Any larger than that and even in the darkest of deep space it would be taking in mass in the form of energy faster than it could lose it via Hawking radiation. A tennis ball sized black hole would have a mass close to that of Uranus.
 
  • Informative
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Mlesnita Daniel and anorlunda
The expected mass of the hypothetical object is about the same as the planet Neptune.
 
Here is a Hawking radiation calculator
Alternative if the first one goes down again

The temperature of the CMB is 2.7 K, plugging this into the calculator gives us 0.0076 Earth masses, or about half the mass of the Moon. It also gives us a lifetime of 2.5E44 years.

A lifetime of 20 billion years corresponds to 200 million tonnes initial mass (a small mountain) and an initial Hawking radiation of 9 GW at a temperature of 600 GK or 50 MeV. We would see such an intense source of gamma rays in the sky. Or maybe not. Poor photon statistics. 9 GW/(50 MeV * (100 AU)^2) * 1 m^2 = 5*10-6/s.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: anorlunda

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
6K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 73 ·
3
Replies
73
Views
8K