Is Poker Morally Acceptable for a Christian?

[Pengwuino]

I don't think so.. I see the dealer take in tips and put them in the rack of chips (odd...). I'll go and ask... maybe that dealer was screwed up haha.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

ek, just do a google search for "card counting poker" and you'll find plenty of tutorials. Here is an example:

http://pokermag.com/ManageArticle.asp?C=60&A=6587

Maybe there's a mix up in terminology here.
You can't "card count" when the deck is shuffled between hands. Card counting generally refers to what is done in black jack where the cards are drawn straight off the top of the same deck until all of the cards in that deck have been dealt. When this is done you can keep a mantal tally of what cards have been dealt in previous hands and know for a fact that a certain card won't be dealt because it already has been previously. In holdem you can only calculate odds and make an educated guess as to your opponents hole cards by comparing their betting and the cards you can see in play. This isn't generally considered card counting as far as I know.


On the issue of ethics. I don't think there is anything unethical about poker or gambling as long as people aren't being scammed. There is only one instance that I think of that I would consider it unethical. If you're in a casino playing and you can see that someone is throwing away their money at the table when they oughtn't be and you continue to take it then this could be considered unethical, I would consider it so myself. They may be the one making the mistake of doing so but if you can reasonably see what is occurring and continue I would consider it exploitation. Online I can't really see this being much of an issue.

 

[ek]

Ok so you have them memorized.

I don't have them memorized. Arithmetic is my thing. I can do any odds to a good approximation almost instantly.

 

[Physics_wiz]

BTW, anyone know anything about whether online poker is illegal or not? I live in WV...anyone know where I can find like state laws concerning gambling or something?

 

[Moonbear]

BTW, anyone know anything about whether online poker is illegal or not? I live in WV...anyone know where I can find like state laws concerning gambling or something?

Seems betting is illegal there http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/West-Virginia/

With the following exceptions:

..except bowls, chess or backgammon, draughts or a licensed game...

Woo hoo, I can look forward to those rousing backgammon tournaments!

That's what you have to look at, not whether it's illegal to set up a gambling establishment/tables, but what the penalties are for placing bets.

Though, in that link I provided, interestingly, if you lose anything more than $10 while gambling in WV, you can sue the winner to get it back because they won it illegally. That's a bit different from other states I've seen that pretty much say you're screwed if you were dumb enough to lose the title to your house while gambling illegally. But, I doubt that will help you much if you are playing online at a site established someplace outside of WV.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Ok... I need to visit WV so I can gamble on chess games lol. That and to take Moonie out for dinner ofcourse.

 

[Moonbear]

Ok... I need to visit WV so I can gamble on chess games lol. That and to take Moonie out for dinner ofcourse.

:!) :!)

What are bowls and draughts anyway? It sounds like some old geezers in a nursing home protested the gambling laws with that collection of games.

 

[arildno]

I don't get this:
What's so interesting having poker games over Internet??
It is a lot more fun to be together for real, right?

 

[ek]

Online poker is not legal in the US nor is it illegal. It is not stated explicitly anywhere what the country's policy is.

All of these online poker rooms are offshore so really the US has no jurisdiction anyway.

You do, however, have to pay taxes in the US on online poker winnings. In Canada we do not.

There are certain sites that do not allow Americans or Canadians for one reason or another. For example Americans are not allowed to play at Ladbrokes and Canadians are not allowed to play at Bodog. But all of the major sites are open to everyone legally.

 

[Moonbear]

I found out what bowls is! http://www.tradgames.org.uk/games/Bowls.htm

At least it's not shuffleboard, I guess. I'm trying to figure out where in WV the land would be flat enough to play a game like that. I think I'd be betting on whether the balls would stay on the playing field.

 

[ek]

I don't get this:
What's so interesting having poker games over Internet??
It is a lot more fun to be together for real, right?

It's tough to get 6-10 guys together a lot of the time. Unless you live near a casino or card room, which in my case I don't. If you want to play more than once or twice a week, you pretty much have to play online.

Also if you're starting out you can play much lower stakes online than in a casino/cardroom. The lowest stakes you can find live are usually 1/2NL and 2/4 fixed. Online you can find stakes all the way down to penny/2penny.

Online you can also play more than one table at a time. Like I said earlier, I play up to ten tables at a time. It's a lot faster and more exciting.

Even with all the plusses of online poker, I still prefer playing live. The players are generally worse than online and the whole social aspect of it makes it more enjoyable. I'm lucky right now because I just found a local game with these young rich kids playing .5/1 NL every night. They throw around money like it's nothing. Very profitable.

 

[arildno]

Oh, you were talking about the card game..
Sorry for butting in..

 

[Moonbear]

Online poker is not legal in the US nor is it illegal. It is not stated explicitly anywhere what the country's policy is.

All of these online poker rooms are offshore so really the US has no jurisdiction anyway.

You do, however, have to pay taxes in the US on online poker winnings. In Canada we do not.

There are certain sites that do not allow Americans or Canadians for one reason or another. For example Americans are not allowed to play at Ladbrokes and Canadians are not allowed to play at Bodog. But all of the major sites are open to everyone legally.

In the U.S., gambling laws are determined by the individual states, so what is legal in one state may be illegal in the neighboring state.

I don't get this:
What's so interesting having poker games over Internet??
It is a lot more fun to be together for real, right?

I agree. I don't see the fun in playing online. More of the fun in playing is the face-to-face psychological game...who has the better poker face, who bluffs well, etc. Plus, in a friendly game, it's just something to do while chatting (but then you play for things like peanuts or M&Ms rather than money).

 

[Moonbear]

Oh, you were talking about the card game..
Sorry for butting in..

You're so bad, so very very bad! It's so unfair that you're gay!

 

[arildno]

I agree. I don't see the fun in playing online. More of the fun in playing is the face-to-face psychological game...who has the better poker face, who bluffs well, etc. Plus, in a friendly game, it's just something to do while chatting (but then you play for things like peanuts or M&Ms rather than money).

Yes, I absolutely agree with you, dear..


It's so fun to find out who's got the best poker face..

 

[Physics_wiz]

Ok... I need to visit WV so I can gamble on chess games lol. That and to take Moonie out for dinner ofcourse.

Welcome any time . I haven't been here for long, but I know a few places to go (we have BK and McD's). We can also play some poker for 20 bucks and if we win we just take the money, if we lose we sue the guys who won (thanks to Moonbear for enlightening us to the hidden law that no one knows about).

BTW, I've always wanted to have a pet monkey since I was a little kiddo...does he know any awesome tricks?

 

[Pengwuino]

haha I've been playing 1/2 hold em for the last 3 hours :D

But I've been dealing with this same crap over and over all night. I'll get pocket A's or K's... and the flop will be all suited or make a possible straight immediately. Just now i had pocket A's... and of course, immediately 3 diamonds flop. Well, thankfully i still won

 

[ek]

In the U.S., gambling laws are determined by the individual states, so what is legal in one state may be illegal in the neighboring state.

I know that.

But it still doesn't affect online poker. Offshore is offshore.

Just got home from a five hour game tonight of .5/1 NL. Finished up $247. Go me.

 

[Moonbear]

Welcome any time . I haven't been here for long, but I know a few places to go (we have BK and McD's).

BK and McD's?!

Believe it or not, there are decent restaurants out there. I was at a really nice restaurant on this last trip down (not that I noticed the name...definitely not a place for anyone on a student budget), and there's a decent Indian restaurant somewhere in the downtown area (that's the area where I get hopelessly lost), I've wandered into a pub with typical pub food, there was a brew pub somewhere, but I can't recall if that was near the campus or someplace else...went there on one of my first trips to WV and was really turned around and clueless as to where I was...someone just picked me up at the Pittsburgh airport and transported me everywhere, and I had no idea where I was most of the time I was there.

 

[Physics_wiz]

BK and McD's?!

Believe it or not, there are decent restaurants out there. I was at a really nice restaurant on this last trip down (not that I noticed the name...definitely not a place for anyone on a student budget), and there's a decent Indian restaurant somewhere in the downtown area (that's the area where I get hopelessly lost), I've wandered into a pub with typical pub food, there was a brew pub somewhere, but I can't recall if that was near the campus or someplace else...went there on one of my first trips to WV and was really turned around and clueless as to where I was...someone just picked me up at the Pittsburgh airport and transported me everywhere, and I had no idea where I was most of the time I was there.

It was a joke Moonbear! They do have some pretty nice restaurants around here. I think I've been to one of those "real" http://www.theglasshousegrille.com/]restaurants[/PLAIN] only once in my entire life . It was a school sponsored thing too. Other than that, the best I've been to was the $6 chinese buffet next to walmart.

BTW, where'd you go in WV? I live in Morgantown

 

[Moonbear]

It was a joke Moonbear! They do have some pretty nice restaurants around here. I think I've been to one of those "real" http://www.theglasshousegrille.com/]restaurants[/PLAIN] only once in my entire life . It was a school sponsored thing too. Other than that, the best I've been to was the $6 chinese buffet next to walmart.

BTW, where'd you go in WV? I live in Morgantown

Uh oh! Now I'm going to have to walk around wearing my mask and cape to hide my secret identity! Yep, that's the name of the restaurant (though I didn't see it until I quoted you...wrong tags on it), it was very good! I was looking through the list of local restaurants today trying to remember places I've been while visiting. Glasshouse Grille was this recent trip. Of course since I've almost always stayed at the Hampton Inn while visiting (I've visited MANY times over the past several years), I've eaten at the Applebees many times (to the point where I'm sick of it), there's also a decent Chinese place on Van Voorhis, and right up where Van Voorhis and 705 intersect, there's a tiny little mall with a decent family-run Italian restaurant (very small, slow service, but good and plentiful food).

I've also been to Pargo's, but I don't recall the food...I think that was at the end of one of those really long experiments where I don't remember anything other than having a pint of beer and being dropped off at the hotel to sleep until check-out time and then hitting the road for home.

West Virginia Brewing Company is the brewpub I was trying to recall the name of (as if it was a really difficult name to remember). And I have also been to La Casa for Mexican. Good food there too, but I seem to recall they didn't have a bar, or maybe it was a very limited beer and wine selection, and that was a big gripe of the group I was with.

Now I know not to post any more pictures of the place I'll be living (don't worry, it's far away from the student housing ).

 

[BobG]

I found out what bowls is! http://www.tradgames.org.uk/games/Bowls.htm

At least it's not shuffleboard, I guess. I'm trying to figure out where in WV the land would be flat enough to play a game like that. I think I'd be betting on whether the balls would stay on the playing field.

Obviously they play Crown Green Bowl in West Virginia.

That's a fun game at picnics (except the sets you buy at Walmart, Gart Sports, etc are called Bocce Sets, in spite of the fact that Bocci is a completely different game). It would be an excellent betting game. Not only for the winner of the game, but the side bets on each shot - "Off the tree, over the root, around the sprinkler head, nothing but Jack"; "Off the back of Jack's head, off the windshield of Jack's car, down the steps, over the foot bridge, under the bush, and nothing but Jack."

 

[Moonbear]

Obviously they play Crown Green Bowl in West Virginia.

That's a fun game at picnics (except the sets you buy at Walmart, Gart Sports, etc are called Bocce Sets, in spite of the fact that Bocci is a completely different game). It would be an excellent betting game. Not only for the winner of the game, but the side bets on each shot - "Off the tree, over the root, around the sprinkler head, nothing but Jack"; "Off the back of Jack's head, off the windshield of Jack's car, down the steps, over the foot bridge, under the bush, and nothing but Jack."

That sounds like the "ultimate" croquet games we used to play! It was sort of like croquet combined with miniature golf. We'd have obstacles, and ramps to play around. Of course it's the sort of game you play when you have one old professor who shows up to a party with a croquet set expecting this will be a popular pasttime, and the younger crowd finally agrees to play after consuming plenty of beer first (or was it the spiked cider?), but regular croquet is rather boring, so voila! you get ultimate croquet.

I'm now envisioning some interesting entertainment out on the farm during late night experiments, and all legal too!