Is QM generally believed to be able to describe Newtonian mechanics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between quantum mechanics (QM) and classical mechanics, specifically whether QM can adequately describe Newtonian mechanics and special relativity (SR) as observed, excluding gravitational effects. Participants explore various interpretations of QM and their implications for understanding the physical world.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express difficulty in understanding QM and question whether its interpretations can explain observed phenomena in Newtonian mechanics and SR.
  • One participant asserts that Newtonian mechanics and SR cannot explain observations without considering QM.
  • There is a claim that the many-worlds interpretation (MWI) is not the mainline view, but rather that QM itself explains the world regardless of the interpretation chosen.
  • Another participant notes that while many interpretations of QM have their merits, none are perfect, and each has unappealing features.
  • A question is raised about the vagueness of the inquiry regarding QM's consistency with Newtonian mechanics and SR, highlighting potential confusion over the terms used.
  • Some participants discuss the nature of scientific consensus, arguing about the role of consensus versus experimental validation in establishing scientific truth.
  • There is a contention that discussions of quantum interpretations may not represent "scientific truth" and could be seen as speculation or philosophy rather than rigorous science.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether QM can describe Newtonian mechanics and SR as observed. There are competing views on the adequacy of QM's interpretations and the nature of scientific consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some statements reflect limitations in the clarity of definitions and the assumptions underlying the discussion. The relationship between Newtonian mechanics, SR, and QM remains unresolved, with participants expressing differing interpretations and understandings.

Is QM generally believed to be able to describe Newtonian mechanics .. (read further)

  • Yes, QM is consistent with the observations

    Votes: 5 100.0%
  • No, it is inconsistent as a theory / with the observations

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    5
Pony
Messages
39
Reaction score
10
TL;DR
Is QM generally believed to be able to describe Newtonian mechanics / SR as we observe it, not counting gravity, and objective collapse theories?
I have a hard time to grok QM. I wonder if it is my fault. Probably QM and all the interpretations are incapable to explain the world as we observe it (either in Newtonian mechanics, or in Special Relativity), not counting gravitation, also not allowing "objective collapse" (which would be a different theory).

IIRC @Demystifier has several papers about how none of the interpretations work, and how measurement is still a problem. I am asking about the mainline view, is for example MWI generally viewed as something that explains the world that we observe (without gravity), how we observe it, and such?
 
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Yes.
If it weren’t consistent with observation we wouldn’t it wouldn’t work and we wouldn’t use it.
 
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Pony said:
I have a hard time to grok QM. I wonder if it is my fault.
It is your limitation, but not your fault.
Pony said:
Probably QM and all the interpretations are incapable to explain the world as we observe it (either in Newtonian mechanics, or in Special Relativity),
On the contrary, Newtonian mechanics and special relativity are incapable of explaining the world as we observe it -- unless we also take quantum mechanics into account!
 
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Pony said:
I am asking about the mainline view, is for example MWI generally viewed as something that explains the world that we observe (without gravity), how we observe it, and such?
MWI is surely not the mainline view.

The world is explained by quantum mechanics, no matter which interpretation you choose.
 
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Pony said:
IIRC @Demystifier has several papers about how none of the interpretations work, and how measurement is still a problem.
That's not exactly what I said. There are many interpretations that work in a sense, but neither is perfect, each of them has some unappealing features.
 
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Pony said:
Is QM generally believed to be able to describe Newtonian mechanics / SR as we observe it, not counting gravity, and objective collapse theories?
Your question is too vague. Newtonian mechanics/SR, taken literally (as opposed to being used as approximations), are not consistent with observations. So are you asking whether QM is consistent with observations? Or are you asking whether QM is consistent with Newtonian mechanics/SR?

And Newtonian mechanics and SR are not even consistent with each other. So I'm confused as to what you are asking.
 
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And in science we do not decide the truth or falsehoold of a proposition by taking a poll.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
And in science we do not decide the truth or falsehoold of a proposition by taking a poll.
We use the scientific consensus which is completely different. :wink:
 
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Frabjous said:
We use the scientific consensus which is completely different. :wink:
No, we don't. Scientific truth is decided by testing predictions against experiments. Theories which have passed many such tests will have a "consensus" among scientists that they are correct, yes, but the consensus is not why we believe them to be correct.
 
  • #10
PeterDonis said:
No, we don't. Scientific truth is decided by testing predictions against experiments. Theories which have passed many such tests will have a "consensus" among scientists that they are correct, yes, but the consensus is not why we believe them to be correct.
Using that definition, most discussions of quantum interpretations are just psuedoscientific drivel.
 
  • #11
Frabjous said:
Using that definition, most discussions of quantum interpretations are just psuedoscientific drivel.
Most discussions of quantum interpretations are not "scientific truth", they are either speculation or philosophy. That doesn't make them "pseudoscientific" or "drivel", since they are still based on the math of QM, and the math of QM has passed many, many experimental tests. They are just not necessary to use the math of QM to make predictions.
 
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