Is Randomness in Physics Truly Random or Just Our Uncertainty?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of randomness in physics, questioning whether randomness is an intrinsic property of phenomena or merely a reflection of our uncertainty regarding outcomes. It touches on philosophical implications, mathematical definitions, and examples from quantum theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that randomness may be a philosophical question, with differing opinions on whether phenomena can be absolutely random or if randomness is simply a manifestation of our uncertainty.
  • A participant shares an example from astronomy illustrating different methods of selecting a "random" star, highlighting that different algorithms can yield different results, which raises questions about the definition of randomness.
  • Another participant emphasizes that randomness in mathematics requires a defined population of events, suggesting that vague questions about randomness lack specificity.
  • One participant mentions Einstein's skepticism about intrinsic randomness, noting that quantum theory has challenged this view, presenting examples of experiments that suggest intrinsic randomness exists.
  • Discussions about quantum states, such as superposition and entangled states, lead to differing interpretations of what constitutes randomness, with some arguing that entangled states do not add intrinsic randomness while others suggest they exemplify it.
  • A distinction is made between uncertainty about a known outcome and true randomness, with references to Bayesian statistics and density matrices as tools for understanding these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of randomness, with no consensus reached. Some argue for intrinsic randomness in quantum mechanics, while others maintain that randomness is tied to our knowledge and definitions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include varying definitions of randomness, the dependence on specific contexts (e.g., quantum mechanics), and unresolved questions about the implications of different interpretations of quantum states.

  • #31
sina89 said:
Thank all of you for reply. I am new here and i didn't know where to post my question. i wanted to what do people exactly mean when they use the word RANDOM in physics.
I think there is one more think to say about "random" as it is used to describe physics - and I'll try to describe it as non-technically as possible. I will use a binary measurement as an example - a measurement that results in one of two results. A QM experiment can be set up where "locally" the result of the measurement is entirely unpredictable - as if a bit of information had been added to the universe completely unknown and unknowable to that measuring site. However, if the state being measure is entangled, then another QM experimenter a distance away may be discovering that same information.

Now if these two sites compare their results, each will see the others results as completely predictable - a copy of their own result.
But if they never compared results, each might think he had an original and unique string of random bits.

In general, there is no apparent "entanglement" and so there is no possibility on comparing results with another measuring site, and so QM measurements are commonly taken to be "random" in the "original and unique" sense of the term. Moreover, there are QM experiments that convincingly demonstrate that specific information about the results of future measurements is unavailable until the measurement is made - in that sense "random". But at this point we still don't know whether QM results are truly random in the sense that they are determined only by "luck" - or even ever determined by "luck".
 

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