Is regularity preserved in subsets of regular spaces?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the preservation of regularity in subsets of regular spaces, specifically examining proofs related to Hausdorff spaces and T_1 spaces in the context of elementary topology. Participants are reviewing and critiquing proofs presented by one member, focusing on the conditions and implications of the theorems discussed.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents proofs regarding the Hausdorff property and regularity of subsets, asserting that injectivity is necessary for certain conclusions.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of a statement in the proof, suggesting that it should specify "pick y_{1} \neq y_{2} in f(X)" to avoid ambiguity.
  • A subsequent reply agrees with the previous comment and emphasizes that the proof should start with distinct elements from X when establishing that X is Hausdorff.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for clarity in the proofs, particularly regarding the selection of distinct points. However, there is no consensus on the implications of the proofs or the necessity of the conditions stated.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proofs rely on specific definitions and theorems from topology, and there may be limitations in how these concepts are applied or interpreted in the context of subsets and their properties.

ice109
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i've texed up three proofs in from elementary topology. can someone please check them?

actually i'll just retype them here for convenience

8.2.5

Let [itex]f: X_{\tau} \rightarrow Y_{\nu}[/itex] be continuous and injective. Also let [itex]Y_{\nu}[/itex] be Hausdorff.

Prove : [itex]X_{\tau}[/itex] is Hausdorff.

Proof : Pick [itex]y_1[/itex] and [itex]y_2[/itex] in [itex]f(X)[/itex]. By injectivity of f there exist [itex]x_1 =[/itex]
[itex]f^{-1}(y_1)[/itex] and [itex]x_2 = f^{-1}(y_2)[/itex] such that they are both unique. [itex]f(X)[/itex] is Hausdorff so by Theorem 1 there exist disjoint open neighborhoods [itex]U[/itex] and [itex]V[/itex] of [itex]y_1[/itex] and [itex]y_2[/itex] respectively. Then [itex]f^{-1}(U \bigcap V) = f^{-1}(U) \bigcap f^{-1}(V) = \emptyset[/itex] and by continuity [itex]f^{-1}(U)[/itex] and [itex]f^{-1}(V)[/itex] are open. Finally by definition of [itex]f^{-1} : x_1 \in f^{-1}(U)[/itex] and [itex]x_2 \in f^{-1}(V)[/itex] which, as stated previously, are two open disjoint sets in [itex]X_{\tau}[/itex]. Hence [itex]X_{\tau}[/itex] is Hausdorff.\\



Comments:

Injectivity is necessary. Take for example [itex]X = \{a,b\}[/itex] and [itex]Y = \{a\}[/itex] and to be [itex]f: X_{\mathcal{I}} \rightarrow Y_{\mathcal{I}}[/itex]. Explicitly [itex]f(\{a,b\}) =\{a}\}[/itex]. f is continuous, [itex]Y_{\mathcal{I}}[/itex] is obviously Hausdorff and [itex]X_{\mathcal{I}}[/itex] is obviously not.\\

This does not prove that Hausdorff is a strong topological property because we have proven a stronger converse. To prove that Hausdorff is a strong topological property we would have to have proven that [itex]f: X_{\tau} \rightarrow Y_{\nu}[/itex] continuous, not necessarily injective, and [itex]X_{\tau}[/itex] Hausdorff implies [itex]f(X)[/itex] Hausdorff.

8.2.7


Let [itex]X_{\tau}[/itex] be [itex]T_1[/itex] and [itex]A \subseteq T[/itex] and [itex]x \in A'[/itex].\\

Prove : Any neighborhood of x intersects \textit{A} in infinitely many points.

Proof : Assume that there exists a neighborhood of x, in [itex]X_{\tau}[/itex] that intersects \textit{A} in only finitely many points to derive a contradiction. Let [itex]N_x[/itex] be such a neighborhood. [itex]N_x[/itex] is [itex]T_1[/itex] by Theorem 1. Hence we can separate x from all points in [itex]N_x[/itex] by other neighborhoods. Since there are finitely many points in [itex]N_x[/itex] there are finitely many such neighborhoods. Let \textit{N} be the intersection of those neighborhoods. [itex]N -\{x\}[/itex] therefore is itself a non-trivial open neighborhood of \textit{x} which does not intersect \textit{A}. This contradicts that x is a limit point of \textit{A} and therefore any neighborhood of x intersects \textit{A} in infinitely many points.



\textbf{8.3.4}\\

Let [itex]A \subseteq X_{\tau}[/itex] and [itex]X_{\tau}[/itex] be regular.\\

Prove : A is regular.

Proof : Pick [itex]A_1 \subseteq A[/itex], [itex]A_1[/itex] closed in the subspace topology, and [itex]x \in A - A_1[/itex]. Then [itex]A_1 = B[/itex] for some [itex]B \in \tau[/itex] and we can find two open sets [itex]N_B[/itex] and [itex]N_x[/itex] by the the regularity of [itex]X_{\tau}[/itex] which are disjoint. [itex]N_B \bigcap A[/itex] and [itex]N_x \bigcap A[/itex] are two disjoint sets in A which contain [itex]A_1[/itex] and x respectively. Therefore A is regular.


Theorem 1 : A subspace of a [itex]T_i[/itex] space for [itex]i \leq 2[/itex] is [itex]T_i[/itex].
 

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I'm not an expert at all... but in 8.2.5 shouldn't you say "pick [tex]y_{1} \neq y_{2}[/tex] in [tex]f(X)[/tex]?
 
futurebird said:
I'm not an expert at all... but in 8.2.5 shouldn't you say "pick [tex]y_{1} \neq y_{2}[/tex] in [tex]f(X)[/tex]?

yea you're right
 
ice109 said:
yea you're right

When you want to prove that X is hausdorff I think it is nicer to say: Pick [itex]x_1 \neq x_2[/itex] in X, and then do as you do. It is because when it is X you want to prove is hausdorf I think you should start there, because you have to prove it for any two x'es in X.
 

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