Is relativistic mass not an appropriate concept?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the appropriateness of the concept of relativistic mass in the context of special relativity (SR). Participants argue that while relativistic mass has historical significance, it is largely deprecated in favor of invariant mass due to its lack of utility and clarity. The conversation references Einstein's 1948 letter, where he explicitly states that introducing relativistic mass is not beneficial, advocating instead for the use of rest mass. The debate highlights the confusion that arises from conflating relativistic mass with momentum and energy, emphasizing the need for clear definitions in physics education.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of special relativity principles
  • Familiarity with the concepts of invariant mass and rest mass
  • Knowledge of momentum and energy in relativistic contexts
  • Basic grasp of historical developments in physics, particularly in the late 19th century
NEXT STEPS
  • Research Einstein's 1948 letter regarding mass definitions
  • Study the derivation of relativistic momentum and energy
  • Explore the implications of invariant mass in modern physics
  • Examine the historical context of mass concepts in physics, focusing on contributions from Abraham and Lorentz
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, educators, and students interested in the foundations of special relativity and the evolution of mass concepts in theoretical physics.

  • #31
atyy said:
how do you motivate that the stress-energy tensor is the generalization of "gravitational mass" when searching for a generalization of Newton's gravity consistent with special relativity?
AFAIK there is no generalization of Newtonian gravity which is consistent with SR. I always make the point that the source of gravity in GR is the stress-energy tensor precisely to encourage the understanding that GR is not merely an extension of Newtonian gravity.
 
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  • #32
I'd agree that there doesn't appear to be any fundamental definition of mass in GR, which gives rise to the large number of non-fundamental definitions we do have (and these definitions require additional assumptions to calculate at all, such as a static metric, or asymptotic flatness, another reason they are not fundamental).

As far as motivation goes, the approach I tend to use (borrowed from the textbooks I learned from) is to initially talk about gravity as the result of geodesic deviation, rather than a force.

I'll also refer readers to Baez's "The Meaning of Einstein's equation" which ties the the second derivative of the volume of a sphere of coffee grounds following geodesics to the enclosed density and pressure.

I'll tend to use the Newtonian idea of mass more to motivate Komar mass based on Wald's treatment - though this is more of an advanced topic than something I'd introduce right away, unlesss the idea of mass was brought up specifically. The Komar mass also ties in nicely with Baez's treatment, however.
 

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