News Is Rick Santorum's Religious Extremism a Deal Breaker for Voters?

[Jimmy Snyder]

If you are pro-choice and vote against Santorum because he is pro-life, are you voting against him for religious reasons?

 

[WhoWee]

I don't like his tax cuts for the rich and large businesses. I don't like his proposal to triple the IRS tax deduction per child. I don't like his proposal to take away standardized proper education and allow parents, not educators, to determine what is acceptable to be taught in schools.

I disagree with all of this.

IMO, he's a dangerous man that wishes to reverse the freedoms and social advances this country has made in the last 100 years that go against his personal religious beliefs.

http://www.ricksantorum.com/faith-family-and-freedom-tour

I think his pro-manufacturing plan is more political than realistic. IMO - it's intended to appeal to the heavy industry (and heavy union) Great Lakes states >PA, OH, MI, IL, NY,IN. I think it actually helped him initially in MI.

I haven't read through his new plan (apparently released today).

 

[JDoolin]

I don't think this is a fair summation of the argument. While what you have said is part of the debate, another important aspect is the degree to which local control versus state or federal control produces the best outcomes. For example, with federally mandated tests determining funding, teachers "teach to the test" and in some cases (like at my old high school) teachers allow cheating to boost scores. A lot of the debate does have to do with the bureaucratic nature of these things, and the question as to whether one size fits all policies actually work.

That's very well said. But are any of the Republican candidates publicly making that argument? Probably, in local elections, but what about nationally?

 

[Pythagorean]

his religious convictions will lead him to make specific policy decisions that they disagree with.

yep, this is what it comes down to. If you call that "because he's religious" then YES, that's the reason.

 

[Char. Limit]

Again, does anyone have any reason other than religious beliefs not to vote for Santorum?

This is much like Jimmy's question above, but I do not support Santorum because he claims evolution to be "only a theory". People like that, I don't want in office. Is that non-religious, though?

 

[WhoWee]

This is much like Jimmy's question above, but I do not support Santorum because he claims evolution to be "only a theory". People like that, I don't want in office. Is that non-religious, though?

I received another infraction and won't be responding in this thread any more - please continue with your thoughts Char.

 

[Hobin]

This is much like Jimmy's question above, but I do not support Santorum because he claims evolution to be "only a theory". People like that, I don't want in office. Is that non-religious, though?

I don't think it's religious. At least, I suspect you don't want him in office not because of his disbelief in evolution per se, but more because this shows a.) lack of rational thought, and b.) that he's most likely a fundamentalist.

That's reason enough not to want someone in office, methinks.

 

[Pythagorean]

We can't truly say whether his irrational thought processes are due to religion; we just assume they are since:

1) they're congruent with fundamentalist Christian ideals
2) his campaign talk has a lot of Christian reference.
3) he has specifically stated that church and state shouldn't be completely separate

 

[Galteeth]

I don't think it's religious. At least, I suspect you don't want him in office not because of his disbelief in evolution per se, but more because this shows a.) lack of rational thought, and b.) that he's most likely a fundamentalist.

That's reason enough not to want someone in office, methinks.

I'm not so sure a a lot of isn't posturing. Much has been made of the fact that earlier in his career, Santorum was considerably more moderate. It calls into question how much of his own rhetoric he actually believes.

 

[Hobin]

I'm not so sure a a lot of isn't posturing. Much has been made of the fact that earlier in his career, Santorum was considerably more moderate. It calls into question how much of his own rhetoric he actually believes.

That's possible, of course. On the other hand, I doubt I'd vote for someone "just in case he doesn't believe his own rhetoric."

 

[SixNein]

We can't truly say whether his irrational thought processes are due to religion; we just assume they are since:

1) they're congruent with fundamentalist Christian ideals
2) his campaign talk has a lot of Christian reference.
3) he has specifically stated that church and state shouldn't be completely separate

I'll say this much about him. He's God's gift to the democrats if he wins primaries. There is no way he'll get elected.

 

[Pythagorean]

yeah, I will actually bother voting if Santorum wins the primaries.

 

[turbo]

yeah, I will actually bother voting if Santorum wins the primaries.

All the women in my extended family will join you Pyth. We are not normally a politically-united family, but this time there is unity.

 

[jreelawg]

Santorum's recent comments about college.

Over the weekend, Santorum said “President Obama once said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob. There are good decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren’t taught by some liberal college professor to try to indoctrinate them. Oh, I understand why he wants you to go to college he wants to remake you in his image.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...b-remark-and-his-incorrect-underlying-charge/

Santorum, Feb. 26: You know the statistic that at least I was familiar with from a few years ago — I don't know if it still holds true but I suspect it may even be worse - that 62% of kids who enter college with some sort of faith commitment leave without it.
...
Santorum made the claim more forcefully at a Jan. 25 appearance in Naples, Fla., where he said "you know 62% of children who enter college with a faith conviction leave without it." He also encouraged people to not give money to colleges.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politi...-santorum-college-faith/53274624/1?csp=34news
And he had some things to say about JFK also.

Rick Santorum: JFK’s 1960 Speech Made Me Want to Throw Up

“I don’t believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country,” said Santorum.

Santorum:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...um-jfks-1960-speech-made-me-want-to-throw-up/

JFK's speech: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAvHHTt2czU

I can see how he would find it offensive.

 

[Fredrik]

Santorum's recent comments about college.



http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...b-remark-and-his-incorrect-underlying-charge/



http://www.usatoday.com/news/politi...-santorum-college-faith/53274624/1?csp=34news



And he had some things to say about JFK also.



Santorum:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...um-jfks-1960-speech-made-me-want-to-throw-up/

JFK's speech: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAvHHTt2czU

I can see how he would find it offensive.

Based on yesterday's The daily show, it seems that Santorum didn't understand what he read. He was upset about the suggestion that a person of faith has no place in the public square, that only people of non-faith can come in the public square and make their case. The speech didn't actually say anything like that, but Santorum is clearly one of those guys who couldn't care less about the facts.

The comment about Obama being a snob because he wants everyone to go to college turned out to be just as misguided. When Santorum clarified his position, he said essentially the same thing that Obama did.

Santorum is quite scary, but I think I still want him to win against Romney, because he should have no chance against Obama in the actual election.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Apparently, the Santorum campaign has been robocalling Democrats in order to encourage them to vote for Santorum. According to them, they are trying to reach out to Reagan Democrats, but according to me, they're going to reach a lot more Obama Democrats, only too happy to oblige. I think it's called taking one from the team

 

[MarcoD]

Odd thing. I don't feel comfortable commenting on US politics, I am a rabid atheist, I can't vote in the US, the guy has made some unfavorable remarks about my country, about every religious statement he makes goes against what I believe, but I find myself warming up on the guy...

What kind of odd psychological trick is that? Branding?

 

[Hobin]

What kind of odd psychological trick is that? Branding?

The closest thing I can think of would be Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[MarcoD]

No. I think it's, among other things, the comment he made about the Netherlands. According to him, we would euthanize 10% of the elderly and elderly would wear bracelets to prevent that from happening.

Now that clearly isn't true, right? But that doesn't matter. The thing is that in case it would be true, he would be at the right side of the fence. So you end up with the idea: 'This is really a decent chap.'

 

[Evo]

No. I think it's, among other things, the comment he made about the Netherlands. According to him, we would euthanize 10% of the elderly and elderly would wear bracelets to prevent that from happening.

Now that clearly isn't true, right? But that doesn't matter. The thing is that in case it would be true, he would be at the right side of the fence. So you end up with the idea: 'This is really a decent chap.'

But he's nuts if he thinks people are going to be euthanized against their will, IMO.

 

[MarcoD]

But he's nuts if he thinks people are going to be euthanized against their will, IMO.

Well, I agree on that. But personally I've started to believe that nothing is beyond doctors; but that's also because of some personal experiences, and I am starting to become a grumpy old fart. I really think in some professions doctors need to rethink their premises. So, I kind of sympathize with him there.

(To the most of you: you should write down my comments as 'a case of bad luck.' It has nothing to do with religion.)

 

[lisab]

Well, I agree on that. But personally I've started to believe that nothing is beyond doctors; but that's also because of some personal experiences, and I am starting to become a grumpy old fart. I really think in some professions doctors need to rethink their premises. So, I kind of sympathize with him there.

Actually I think you're right on target. I feel he's the most sincere of all the candidates, and for that I give him begrudged respect. Begrudged because I really, strongly don't agree with him.

 

[Galteeth]

Actually I think you're right on target. I feel he's the most sincere of all the candidates, and for that I give him begrudged respect. Begrudged because I really, strongly don't agree with him.

I disagree.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/21/rick-santorum-abortion_n_1291634.html

 

[JDoolin]

I disagree.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/21/rick-santorum-abortion_n_1291634.html

Actually, I think what I see there in that link is a fairly standard Republican stance. They don't believe abortion should be illegal but rather, they believe there should be no tax-payer money involved supporting any abortion, or any organization that performs abortions.

 

[Fredrik]

No. I think it's, among other things, the comment he made about the Netherlands. According to him, we would euthanize 10% of the elderly and elderly would wear bracelets to prevent that from happening.

Now that clearly isn't true, right? But that doesn't matter. The thing is that in case it would be true, he would be at the right side of the fence. So you end up with the idea: 'This is really a decent chap.'

I'm surprised that this type of rhetoric would work on a person who's clearly smart enough to know that this guy is either delusional or lying. (In my opinion, it's 80% delusion and 20% lying).

 

[MarcoD]

Wouldn't know. He may be a shrewd politician, or someone might have fed him some baloney story. I really don't know enough about him to form any opinion, except for that I am a rabid atheist, so go figure.

 

[Galteeth]

Actually, I think what I see there in that link is a fairly standard Republican stance. They don't believe abortion should be illegal but rather, they believe there should be no tax-payer money involved supporting any abortion, or any organization that performs abortions.

The point is he's taken a much harder line since his first run for congress. The article was a response to his supposed sincerity. It is evidence suggestive that perhaps he is more of a standard politician, saying what he thinks will gain him traction, rather then necessarily being a "true believer." I'm not sure myself. Neither option is particularly palatable to me. But certainly in the last debate, he explained his willingness to vote for things he didn't believe in for political purposes (see his response to his vote on No Child Left Behind.)

 

[ThomasT]

If you are pro-choice and vote against Santorum because he is pro-life, are you voting against him for religious reasons?

I think this is a somewhat interesting, and somewhat deep, question. My affinity for, and adherence to, a secular and scientific approach can be called a religion. What's the essential difference between this approach and Santorum's theistic religiosity? It isn't just that Santorum chooses to believe in, and act in accordance with, Christian mythology and doctrine. Although that's an indicator of the deeper, the essential, problem, imho, with people like Santorum.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

My affinity for, and adherence to, a secular and scientific approach can be called a religion.

If everything is religion, then the only reason for being against Santorum is religion.

 

[MarcoD]

My affinity for, and adherence to, a secular and scientific approach can be called a religion.

Your adherence maybe, but that doesn't make science a religion. Hey, I am skeptical in everything, blind faith in scientists is a bad thing, IMO. But to substitute that for the believe that some ghost is meddling in the affairs of carbon based collections of molecules, and actually has an opinion on how these collections should interact? Baloney.