Is Statement 3 Correct Concerning Non-Invertible Matrices in Linear Systems?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the correctness of various statements concerning non-invertible matrices in linear systems, particularly focusing on the implications of having non-trivial solutions and the rank of matrices in relation to the number of equations and unknowns. The scope includes theoretical considerations and counter-examples related to linear algebra concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of the statement that if Y is a non-trivial solution of a system Ax=b, then 2Y is also a solution, suggesting that the definition of trivial and non-trivial solutions needs clarification.
  • There is a proposal that if a system has 4 equations and 6 unknowns with infinite solutions and 2 degrees of freedom, the rank of A must be 2, although this is contested.
  • One participant provides a counter-example to falsify the first statement, demonstrating that it does not hold under certain conditions.
  • Another participant suggests a method to falsify the second statement by constructing a specific system of equations and analyzing the rank of the corresponding matrix.
  • A participant argues that if a matrix A has a non-trivial solution in its nullspace, it cannot be invertible, supporting the claim that statement 3 is correct.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of having a solution x=(1,0,3)^t for the system Ax=0, leading to the conclusion that A must be non-invertible if such a solution exists.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of statements 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, with no consensus reached on which statement is definitively correct. Multiple competing interpretations and counter-examples are presented, indicating an unresolved debate.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the need for clearer definitions regarding trivial and non-trivial solutions, as well as the assumptions underlying the rank of matrices in relation to the number of equations and unknowns.

Yankel
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Hello,

I got one more true / false question, this time I need to pick the CORRECT answer:

1. If Y is a non trivial solution of a system Ax=b, then 2Y is also a solution of this system

2. If a system (Ax=b) has 4 equations, 6 unknowns and infinite number of solutions with 2 degrees of freedom, than the rank of A is 2.

3. Let A be a 3X3 matrix so that the system Ax=0 has a solution x=(1 0 3)^t, then A is not invertible.

4. The system Ax=b with m equations and n unknowns (m>n) can not have a single solution.

5. All the statements are wrong

I think that 2 and 4 are wrong. 1 sounds weird, I do not know of trivial / non trivial solution for Ax=b...only for Ax=0...
that leaves me with 3, I am not sure about it, is it correct that if the solution exist, than the system has infinite number of solutions and not just the trivial one ? and in this case, if A is invertible then:

A^-1Ax=A^-10 --> x=0 ?

so 3 is the correct one ?
 
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Yankel said:
so 3 is the correct one ?

Right.
 
Yankel said:
Hello,

I got one more true / false question, this time I need to pick the CORRECT answer:

1. If Y is a non trivial solution of a system Ax=b, then 2Y is also a solution of this system

1 sounds weird, I do not know of trivial / non trivial solution for Ax=b...only for Ax=0...

This does sound weird, since the symbol Y has not been defined.
But from the context I deduce that they mean that Y is supposed to be a solution for x.

A trivial solution would be x=0, which would be a solution if b=0.
So we assume that Y is not equal to 0.

So suppose AY=b, what do you think A(2Y) is?
2. If a system (Ax=b) has 4 equations, 6 unknowns and infinite number of solutions with 2 degrees of freedom, than the rank of A is 2.

How many rows and columns do you think A has?
How many solutions would you expect (how many degrees of freedom) if A is a normal, non-degenerate matrix?
What would be the rank of A in that case?
 
the way you show a statement is false, is you exhibit a counter-example. it need not be fancy, and ANY counter-example will do.

so let's falsify statement 1 with a particular A, y and b that makes it untrue. here is my choice:

$A = \begin{bmatrix}1&0\\0&0 \end{bmatrix};\ y = \begin{bmatrix}1\\1 \end{bmatrix};\ b = \begin{bmatrix}1\\0 \end{bmatrix}$

then Ay = b, but A(2y) = A(2,2) = (2,0) ≠ b.

again, we can falsify 2 in a similar manner. we just need to find a system of 4 equations in 6 unknowns with 2 degrees of freedom, and show that the matrix A for this system does not have rank 2. how about this system:

$\begin{array}{c}x_1 + x_5 = 2\\x_2+x_6 = 2\\x_3 = 1\\x_4 = 1\end{array}$

it has (augmented) matrix:

$\left[\begin{array} {cccccc|c}1&0&0&0&1&0&2\\0&1&0&0&0&1&2\\0&0&1&0&0&0&1\\0&0&0&1&0&0&1 \end{array}\right]$

does this matrix have rank 2?

again, we can falsify 4. we are free to pick any m,n with m > n that suits us. let's pick m = 2, n = 1. so we have 2 equations in one unknown. how about these?

x = 1
2x = 2

this system has the solution x = 1. here, our matrix A is:

$\begin{bmatrix}1\\2\end{bmatrix}$

and $b = \begin{bmatrix}1\\2 \end{bmatrix}$.

so we're down to #3 and #5. clearly only one of these can be true. let's be fancy, and prove #3 by contradiction.

suppose (1,0,3) is in the nullspace of an invertible matrix A:

A(1,0,3) = (0,0,0).

applying A-1 to both sides, we get:

(1,0,3) = A-1(0,0,0) = (0,0,0), which is absurd. so no such matrix can exist.

so if we have a matrix A with A(1,0,3) = (0,0,0), then A cannot be invertible. this proves #3 and thus disproves #5 (it is a counter-example :P)
 

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