Is subtraction commutative and consistent with other mathematical operations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the commutative properties of subtraction and its consistency with other mathematical operations, particularly in the context of formulas such as the slope and distance formulas. Participants explore whether subtraction can be considered commutative and how this relates to other mathematical principles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether subtraction has commutative properties, citing examples from the slope and distance formulas where terms can be rearranged.
  • Others argue that subtraction does not commute, noting that swapping terms in subtraction leads to different results, as illustrated by the example 3 - 2 versus 2 - 3.
  • It is mentioned that while subtraction itself is not commutative, expressions like |x - y| = |y - x| hold true, indicating a different kind of symmetry.
  • One participant explains that rearranging terms in the slope formula effectively introduces a negative sign that cancels out, which does not imply commutativity.
  • Another point raised is that the distance formula ensures positive results due to squaring the differences, which is a separate consideration from the commutativity of subtraction.
  • A participant notes that the expression 3 - 2 can be rewritten as - (2 - 3), which introduces a multiplication factor but does not change the non-commutative nature of subtraction itself.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that subtraction is not commutative, but there are differing views on how to interpret the implications of this in relation to other mathematical operations and formulas.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the properties of numbers and operations are not explicitly stated, and the discussion does not resolve the nuances of how these properties interact in various mathematical contexts.

lLovePhysics
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Are there any communative properties of subtraction because there are many formulas like the slope and distance formulas where you can switch the two terms around right? For example:

Slope Formula: [tex]m=\frac{y1-y2}{x1-x2}[/tex]

You can switch the terms around so that it would be y2-y1, x2-x1 right?

Also for the distance formula:

[tex]\sqrt{(x1-x2)^{2}+(y1iy2)^{2}[/tex]


Btw, the numbers are suppose to be subscripts.
 
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No, subtraction does not commute, but you could say something like [itex]|x-y|=|y-x|[/itex].

The reason you can swap the terms in the first equation you give is, since y1<y2 and x1<x2, swapping both the values of x on the top and y on the bottom will introduce a minus sign in both the numerator and denominator, which will cancel.

In the distance formula, you are squaring the difference between x1 and x2, and y1 and y2, which will make sure the answer is always positive.
 
Subtraction is not commutative. In your example of the slope formula, you're just multiplying the numerator and denominator by -1. In the case of the dist. formula, you're using the property the square of any non-zero real number is positive.

P.S. For subsripts, use underscore, as in x_1. [tex]x_1[/tex]
 
lLovePhysics said:
Are there any communative properties of subtraction ...

Well, as others have pointed out, the answer is no, there isn't. You can pick up a simple example and see:

3 - 2 = 1
whereas: 2 - 3 = -1.

Well, 1 and -1 are, of course, different. So, no, subtraction is not commutative. :)
 
But you can also see that
[tex]3 - 2 = - (2 - 3)[/tex]
which you can read as shorthand for
[tex]-1 \times (2 - 3).[/tex]
Now this does always hold and explains why the formulas in your first post work out:
  • What happens if you multiply numerator and denominator by the same number in a fraction?
  • What happens if you square the opposite of a number (e.g. [itex]x^2 = x \times x[/itex] versus [itex](-x)^2 = (-x) \times (-x)[/itex].
 
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