Is switching to a Dvorak keyboard configuration worth the time and effort?

[franznietzsche]

Yep. Everything from that point on can be seen in algebraic mode. You never really seen those RPN keystrokes that I showed above on the display - all you see are the results of those keystrokes.

Edit: And no, RPN is not the only input style. Algebraic is an option. Also, the input style does not dictate that the output style must look like.

i know it doesn't dictate ouput style, simply that after years of using the algebraic style, both on calculators and for writing programs, having to readjust to a new one would be something of annoyance, though not the greatest in the world.

Either way, its somewhat moot, i won't be getting a new calculator for a while, i don't have the $150 to spend.

 

[Integral]

Since the 28c in '87 HPs have had the ability to do algebraic entry if you wish. However if you have some numbers to crunch, there is NOTHING better then RPN, it works, and it works well. I still cannot use a TI for anything other then trivial addition, subtraction etc.

Recently, at work several of us were looking at raw data in a log file, we found the coordinates of 2 points and needed to know the separation. There just happened to be an ancient HP12c laying about (Gee, I wonder why?)* In RPN distance if found by the key sequence

# (enter) # - (enter) * # (enter) # - (enter)* + (Sqrt)

As I pick up the calculator one of my coworkers (who may not understand RPN) said something to the effect of, Put do you know how to use it?) When I had the answer in short order, he shook his head as if to say "Where did that come from")



* I work at HP Corvallis... where the original calculators where built.

 

[graphic7]

* I work at HP Corvallis... where the original calculators where built.

It's quite sad about what happened to Corvallis. I'm proud of my 48GX, for it was one of the last (if not the last) calculators to come from Corvallis.

Edit: As I'm aware of, the 48 series was also heavily developed by the French HP subsidiaries. So, I guess the 48 isn't really, really from Corvallis after all.

Edit again: Erk just remembered that the 49 series was developed by the French. The 48 was indeed from Corvallis.

 

[franznietzsche]

Since the 28c in '87 HPs have had the ability to do algebraic entry if you wish. However if you have some numbers to crunch, there is NOTHING better then RPN, it works, and it works well. I still cannot use a TI for anything other then trivial addition, subtraction etc.

Recently, at work several of us were looking at raw data in a log file, we found the coordinates of 2 points and needed to know the separation. There just happened to be an ancient HP12c laying about (Gee, I wonder why?)* In RPN distance if found by the key sequence

# (enter) # - (enter) * # (enter) # - (enter)* + (Sqrt)

As I pick up the calculator one of my coworkers (who may not understand RPN) said something to the effect of, Put do you know how to use it?) When I had the answer in short order, he shook his head as if to say "Where did that come from")



* I work at HP Corvallis... where the original calculators where built.

if you had told me those keystrokes, even knowing what RPN is, i would i have no idea what you just plugged in.

 

[JasonRox]

By the way, I got my Pocket PC for Christmas.

I haven't put a math program on it, but you get one that is somewhat like Maple, which is awesome.

 

[Integral]

if you had told me those keystrokes, even knowing what RPN is, i would i have no idea what you just plugged in.

# represents a number (ie key in a number, in this case the each # is a different component of the coordinates.

(enter) = hit the enter key
# the next coordinate
- = hit the minus key (this gives the difference of the 2 #s)

(enter) push the result onto the stack

* = hit the multiply key (compute the square)
# (key in another coordinate)
Enter
# (key in another coordinate)
- compute the difference
Enter
* (compute the square)
+
Add em up
(Sqrt) yields the distance.

To use RPN you have to understand the stack, the modern calcs show several levels of the stack on the screen and the only limitation is calculator memory, this is very helpful. Back in the old days (I started with a HP35 in 1973) you only saw the x register and had to keep track of the stack (only 4 levels) for yourself. That can be tricky.

A neat trick for evaluating polynomials on any calculator is attributed to someone called Hooker.

basically you factor the polynomial eg,
x^2 + 3x +5 = x(x+3)+5

To evaluate this at x = 4
key:
4
enter
enter
3
+
*
5
+

Can you do it in fewer key strokes on your TI?

 

[franznietzsche]

# represents a number (ie key in a number, in this case the each # is a different component of the coordinates.

(enter) = hit the enter key
# the next coordinate
- = hit the minus key (this gives the difference of the 2 #s)

(enter) push the result onto the stack

* = hit the multiply key (compute the square)
# (key in another coordinate)
Enter
# (key in another coordinate)
- compute the difference
Enter
* (compute the square)
+
Add em up
(Sqrt) yields the distance.

To use RPN you have to understand the stack, the modern calcs show several levels of the stack on the screen and the only limitation is calculator memory, this is very helpful. Back in the old days (I started with a HP35 in 1973) you only saw the x register and had to keep track of the stack (only 4 levels) for yourself. That can be tricky.

A neat trick for evaluating polynomials on any calculator is attributed to someone called Hooker.

basically you factor the polynomial eg,
x^2 + 3x +5 = x(x+3)+5

To evaluate this at x = 4
key:
4
enter
enter
3
+
*
5
+

Can you do it in fewer key strokes on your TI?

I read those key strokes, know what the symbols mean, and i cannot possibly get them to make that equation.

I'm just going to stick to algebraic notation. Faster or not, i can read it and understand it much faster.

I get the feeling that RPN is somewhat like Perl: Really easy to use, hard to learn, and so short hand that it can be very difficult to read sometimes.

 

[Integral]

That is pretty much correct, it is not for display it is for calculating. When all that matters is that you get the correct number. Every time I pick up a TI am having to get pencil and paper to write down intermediate results, With RPN I just push them onto the stack. I have never really learned to use a calculator with parens. Like you I just don't care to switch. Same reason I still use a QWERTY keyboard.

Now a days I rarly use a handheld, I just pop open Excel, but most of my computing is done near a computer.

 

[franznietzsche]

That is pretty much correct, it is not for display it is for calculating. When all that matters is that you get the correct number. Every time I pick up a TI am having to get pencil and paper to write down intermediate results, With RPN I just push them onto the stack. I have never really learned to use a calculator with parens. Like you I just don't care to switch. Same reason I still use a QWERTY keyboard.

Now a days I rarly use a handheld, I just pop open Excel, but most of my computing is done near a computer.

doesn't work like that on the 89. You just push the up button, highlight the result you want and press enter to insert it wherever your cursor last was. And you can pick from up to the last 99 results.

Its also very easy if you make a mistake entering to tell exactly what it is. to fix it, you just cycle up through entries (entries and results are in the same list, alternating so you get entry1, one the right of the screen at the bottom, answer 1 to the left of it, entry 2 right above... You just cycle up, select then entry, press enter, fix the syntax and hit enter gain to recalculate.

And I've never even seen anything other than a QWERTY keyboard. (well, the split keyboards, but those are still QWERTY, and i don't like them because of the way i type). I've heard of a Dvorak keyboard, but never seen one.

 

[Integral]

doesn't work like that on the 89. You just push the up button, highlight the result you want and press enter to insert it wherever your cursor last was. And you can pick from up to the last 99 results.

Its also very easy if you make a mistake entering to tell exactly what it is. to fix it, you just cycle up through entries (entries and results are in the same list, alternating so you get entry1, one the right of the screen at the bottom, answer 1 to the left of it, entry 2 right above... You just cycle up, select then entry, press enter, fix the syntax and hit enter gain to recalculate.

And I've never even seen anything other than a QWERTY keyboard. (well, the split keyboards, but those are still QWERTY, and i don't like them because of the way i type). I've heard of a Dvorak keyboard, but never seen one.

You can flip a software switch and turn your keyboard into a Dvorak configuration... If you don't move the key caps to match, it makes a great way to protect your computer from non knowing users.. better then any pass word! The beauty of the Dvorak is that it was designed for effecient keying. While the QWERTY was designed to slow you down.

BUT... you have to learn to type all over again!

 

[franznietzsche]

You can flip a software switch and turn your keyboard into a Dvorak configuration... If you don't move the key caps to match, it makes a great way to protect your computer from non knowing users.. better then any pass word! The beauty of the Dvorak is that it was designed for effecient keying. While the QWERTY was designed to slow you down.

BUT... you have to learn to type all over again!

i type plenty fast(faster than i can forumlate my sentences in my head) on a qwerty, in the dark, with my eyes closed, with no increase in typos, changing would then take me another 10 years to get as good at it. Absolutely no reason to change.