Is the argument sound? Yes, the argument is sound.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that if \( a < \frac{1}{a} < b < \frac{1}{b} \) for nonzero real numbers \( a \) and \( b \), then \( a < -1 \). Participants are exploring the implications of the given inequalities and the conditions on \( a \) and \( b \).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are examining cases based on whether \( a \) is positive or negative. They are questioning the validity of the assumptions made regarding \( a \) and its relationship to \( -1 \). Some participants suggest that the argument does not adequately address the role of \( b \) in the inequalities.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing feedback on the original poster's reasoning. Some have pointed out potential flaws in the logic and the need for further clarification on certain assumptions. There is no explicit consensus on the soundness of the argument yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of the problem statement and are attempting to derive a contradiction based on the inequalities provided. The implications of the inequalities on the values of \( a \) and \( b \) are being critically examined.

Keen94
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Homework Statement


Suppose that a and b are nonzero real numbers. Prove that if a< 1/a < b < 1/b then a<-1.

Homework Equations


Givens: a and b are nonzero real numbers, a< 1/a < b < 1/b, and a≥-1.
Goal: Arrive at a contradiction.

The Attempt at a Solution


Scratch work: First establish whether a<0 or a>0.
Case i.) a>0 and Case ii.) a<0
Case i). a>0. a( a<1/a) ⇒ a2<1 and a(a≥-1) ⇒ a2≥-a.
However a2≥0 and -a<0. Therefore a>0 contradicts the fact that a is at leas greater than or equal to -1.
Is the argument sound? Thanks for the feedback!
 
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Keen94 said:

Homework Statement


Suppose that a and b are nonzero real numbers. Prove that if a< 1/a < b < 1/b then a<-1.

Homework Equations


Givens: a and b are nonzero real numbers, a< 1/a < b < 1/b, and a≥-1.
Goal: Arrive at a contradiction.

The Attempt at a Solution


Scratch work: First establish whether a<0 or a>0.
Case i.) a>0 and Case ii.) a<0
Case i). a>0. a( a<1/a) ⇒ a2<1 and a(a≥-1) ⇒ a2≥-a.
However a2≥0 and -a<0. Therefore a>0 contradicts the fact that a is at leas greater than or equal to -1.
Is the argument sound? Thanks for the feedback!
Your argument doesn't do anything with b, which could also be either negative or positive.

Your hypothesis is (in part) that a < 1/a and that b < 1/b. What do these inequalities say about the numbers a and 1/a and b and 1/b?

Your other hypothesis is that a -1.
 
Keen94 said:

Homework Statement


Suppose that a and b are nonzero real numbers. Prove that if a< 1/a < b < 1/b then a<-1.

Homework Equations


Givens: a and b are nonzero real numbers, a< 1/a < b < 1/b, and a≥-1.
Goal: Arrive at a contradiction.

The Attempt at a Solution


Scratch work: First establish whether a<0 or a>0.
Case i.) a>0 and Case ii.) a<0
Case i). a>0. a( a<1/a) ⇒ a2<1 and a(a≥-1) ⇒ a2≥-a.
However a2≥0 and -a<0. Therefore a>0 contradicts the fact that a is at leas greater than or equal to -1.
Is the argument sound? Thanks for the feedback!
No. Take ##a=1/2## for example. Clearly, ##a>0## holds so ##a \ge -1## does as well. Moreover, you have ##a^2 = 1/4 \ge 0## and ##-a = -1/2 < 0##. There's no apparent contradiction.
 
Keen94 said:

Homework Statement


Suppose that a and b are nonzero real numbers. Prove that if a< 1/a < b < 1/b then a<-1.

Homework Equations


Givens: a and b are nonzero real numbers, a< 1/a < b < 1/b, and a≥-1.
Goal: Arrive at a contradiction.

The Attempt at a Solution


Scratch work: First establish whether a<0 or a>0.
Case i.) a>0 and Case ii.) a<0
Case i). a>0. a( a<1/a) ⇒ a2<1 and a(a≥-1) ⇒ a2≥-a.
However a2≥0 and -a<0. Therefore a>0 contradicts the fact that a is at leas greater than or equal to -1.
Is the argument sound? Thanks for the feedback!
I don't see any where in here where you establish the "fact" that "a is greater than or equal to -1" that you say is contradicted. Of course, in the case that a> 0 it certainly must be greater than -1, but that doesn't seem to be what you are referring to. You do show, correctly, that a2≥-a. But that's trivially true if x> 0. It certainly doesn't contradict "a is greater than or equal to -1"!
 
I see I forgot to post the solution here. woops sorry guys.

If a,b≠0 and a<1/a<b<1/b then a<-1
We can see that
a<1/b ⇒ab<1 if b>0 or it implies that ab>1 if b<0
and
1/a<b ⇒ab<1 if a<0 or it implies that ab>1 if a>0
We can conclude that ab<1 when b>0 and a<0 otherwise the inequality a<b does not hold.
Since a<1/a
then a2>1 since a<0
therefore lal>1
⇒a>1 or a<-1 bur a<0 thus a<-1.
 

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