Is the Conventional Wisdom About the Universe Wrong?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of new research regarding the content of the Universe, specifically questioning the conventional wisdom surrounding dark matter and dark energy. Participants explore the accuracy of the WMAP data and its impact on cosmological models, including the potential for revised error estimates to alter existing theories.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight that new research suggests the conventional understanding of the Universe's content may be incorrect, while others caution that the standard model could still hold under wider error bars.
  • Concerns are raised about the techniques used by the WMAP team, particularly regarding beam smoothing, which some argue could affect the resolution of CMB measurements and widen error margins.
  • There is a sentiment that reactions in the media and online have exaggerated claims about the potential dismissal of dark matter and dark energy, which some participants find frustrating.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the significance of potential changes in WMAP data, suggesting that dark matter and dark energy are supported by a wide array of evidence beyond WMAP findings.
  • Another participant references Prof. Shanks' comments, suggesting that if the new findings are validated, it could weaken the case for dark energy and exotic dark matter, but others argue that such conclusions are premature.
  • Some participants assert that the evidence for dark matter remains robust despite challenges, citing a body of corroborating evidence that supports its existence.
  • There are discussions about the motivations and credibility of scientists who question dark matter and dark energy, with some participants expressing concern over the validity of their arguments.
  • A summary of the Sawangwit and Shanks paper is provided, indicating that their findings could imply significant implications for the understanding of dark matter and dark energy, but the interpretation remains contentious.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are multiple competing views regarding the implications of the new research on dark matter and dark energy, with some defending the traditional models and others questioning their validity.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include unresolved questions about the accuracy of WMAP data, the potential for systematic effects in measurements, and the dependence on the interpretation of new findings. The discussion reflects a range of perspectives on the implications of these findings for established cosmological models.

  • #31
Saul said:
A universe that suddenly starts to accelerated was not expected and requires a change to the laws of physics to explain.
Not expected based on what...a naive extrapolation of our recent expansion history?
As far as needing new physics, if you accept the existence of scalar fields, then no, it doesn't. If you don't accept the existence of scalar fields, then I'm sure you are equally as discontent with the Higgs mechanism, gauge theories, and inflation.

As to the question of whether dark energy does or does not exist, recent analysis of fluctuations in the CMB in the Northern Hemisphere do not support an accelerating universe. (The CMB is affected by clusters if the cluster velocity changes during the period in which the CMB passes by the cluster. The timing of the falling into and out of the gravity well is different if the universe is accelerating.) The Shanks announcement referenced this finding.
That doesn't sound right. The integrated Sachs-Wolfe effect depends on the time dependence of the gravitational wells of intervening galaxy clusters -- not on the velocity of the cluster. Besides, there you go again citing a single study that may claim results that contradict some model of dark energy. When faced with many data sources that seek to test a particular hypothesis, scientists should consider all of them, taking into account sample sizes, quality of the data, etc. If a scientist has several, high quality results with good statistics that say one thing, and one result that says another, he doesn't simply throw his hands up and call it a wash. He needs to do a little thing called Bayesian analysis, and rigorously investigate the problem. Surely you'd agree that if I did a single experiment with one data point that (somehow) refuted Newton's 2nd law, nobody in their right mind would consider my single experiment sufficient to overturn centuries of experimental work which support Newton's 2nd law. This is essentially what you are doing by cherry-picking a small number of studies that run counter to a large body of accumulated evidence in support of dark matter (and dark energy, but less so). For example, why would you conclude that results from a study done of the Northern Hemisphere only should trump (or even strongly call into question) results from (nearly) full sky studies??
 
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  • #32
Saul said:
I provided a link the Planck satellite as it is expected there will be additional and better data to answer some of these questions. Let's keep watching for new data and new papers. That is what makes it interesting for me. Unanswered problem and additional data on the way to provide answers.
Well, that's not going to be for a couple of years yet, so it really doesn't have much bearing on the current discussion.
 

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