Is the Field of Reals in and of itself a Vector Space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether the Field of Reals can be considered a vector space in and of itself, exploring the distinctions and relationships between fields and vector spaces. Participants examine theoretical implications, definitions, and the nature of operations within these mathematical structures.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes a distinction between multiplication in the Field of Reals and scaling in the Set of Vectors, questioning if the Field of Reals can still be a full-fledged vector space if it collapses to a single numerical value.
  • Another participant argues that while a field is not the same as a vector space, it can be considered a vector space over itself.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the usual multiplication on the field of reals aligns with scalar multiplication when considering the reals as a vector space over themselves, emphasizing the technical distinctions between fields and vector spaces.
  • One participant reiterates the earlier question about duplicating the Field of Reals and suggests that the same set can serve as both the field and the set of vectors, proposing that they are not truly "twin" sets but rather the same set used in different contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between fields and vector spaces, with no consensus reached on whether the Field of Reals qualifies as a vector space in its own right. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of treating the same set as both a field and a vector space.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the technical definitions and structures of fields and vector spaces, noting that the discussion involves nuanced distinctions that may depend on specific mathematical formalisms. The implications of using the same set in multiple roles are also acknowledged as a point of contention.

Rising Eagle
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There is a difference between the multiplication op in the Field of Reals and the Scaling op in the Set of Vectors. In the Field, the op is a closed mapping between two members within the same Set, whereas in the Set of Vectors, the op is a mapping between a member of the Set of Vectors and a member from the Set of Scalars (a different set entirely) that is closed within the Set of Vectors. The question arises: if we now let the Set of Vectors become one and the same with the Set of Scalars (i.e., the Field of Reals), do we indeed still have a Vector Space that is also a Field or do we just have a Field? If we just have a Field, is it still a full fledged Vector Space? I am uncertain of the answer as all Vector expressions would resolve to a single numerical value, collapsing the internal mechanical workings that make a Vector Space useful as a model for Physical processes.

Additional question: If the Field of Reals is duplicated so that we have a pair of twin Fields and we can, in theory, keep them entirely separate, can we answer the above question by saying "we have a Field of Reals as a Vector Space over a twin Field of Reals and we genuinely have a Vector Space in its conventional form"?
 
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If we want to be pedantic, then no, in the sense that a field is not the same as a vector space. It can however, be considered a vector space over itself.
Useful note: Given a field F and a subfield E, then F is a vector space over E.
 
The usual multiplication on the field of reals is the same as the usual scalar multiplication when the reals are considered as a vector space over themselves. If you are unconvinced of this fact, then write the map out in terms of set level data. The only distinction you can make is that technically a field is a quintuple [itex](F,+,0,\cdot,1)[/itex] whereas a vector space is an octuple [itex](V,+_V,0_V,F,+_F,0_F,\cdot_F,1_F)[/itex]. However, it really is not useful to view fields and vector spaces as tuples, hence the identification of the field of reals as the vector space of reals over themselves.

Note: I am aware of other formalisms for fields and vector spaces, but the one presented here is sufficient to get the point across.
 
Rising Eagle said:
Additional question: If the Field of Reals is duplicated so that we have a pair of twin Fields and we can, in theory, keep them entirely separate, can we answer the above question by saying "we have a Field of Reals as a Vector Space over a twin Field of Reals and we genuinely have a Vector Space in its conventional form"?

Nothing says that the field of scalars and the set of vectors can't be the same underlying set. In this case they are. The field is the set of reals with the usual multiplication and addition; and the set of vectors is the set of reals with the usual addition.

If it helps to think about it this way, the set of reals with the usual addition and multiplication is a field; and the same set of reals with just the usual addition is an additive Abelian group. So it's not really a "twin" set, it's the same set being used twice.
 
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