Is the Intersection of an Infinite Collection of Open Sets Always Open?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jinsing
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Intersection Sets
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of open sets in the context of real analysis, specifically focusing on the intersection of open sets. The original poster questions whether the intersection of an infinite collection of open sets remains open, building on the established fact that the intersection of two open sets is open.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to prove that the intersection of two open sets is open and questions whether additional details are necessary for the proof. They also express uncertainty about proving that the intersection of an infinite collection of open sets results in a set that is not open.
  • Participants suggest clarifying the context of open sets within the real numbers and emphasize the need for rigorous definitions and proofs regarding the properties of open sets.
  • There are inquiries about the definition of an open set and how it applies to the specific case of the set {0}.
  • Some participants question the original poster's understanding of proving set equalities and suggest methods for demonstrating these properties.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing guidance on how to approach the proofs and definitions involved. There is a focus on clarifying definitions and ensuring rigorous reasoning is applied to the problems at hand. Multiple interpretations of the intersection properties are being explored, particularly regarding the implications of the intersection of open sets.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of adhering to definitions and the potential for confusion when applying concepts across different mathematical spaces. The original poster expresses concern about the level of detail required by their professor, indicating a need for thoroughness in their proofs.

jinsing
Messages
29
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


a) If U and V are open sets, then the intersection of U and V (written U \cap V) is an open set.
b) Is this true for an infinite collection of open sets?


Homework Equations



Just knowledge about open sets.


The Attempt at a Solution



a) Let U and V be open sets, x be in U \cap V, and a,b be real numbers. Then there exists open intervals (a1,b1) in U and (a2,b2) in V such that x is in (a1,b1) and x is in (a2,b2). Now let (a,b) = (a1,b1) \cap (a2,b2). Since x is in (a1, b1) and x is in (a2,b2), then x is in (a,b) and by definition is an open interval. Moreover, since (a,b) is a subset of U \cap V, then U \cap V is an open set.

Is there anything I'm missing from this proof, like proving that the intersection (a1,b1) \cap (a2,b2) is an open interval? Or is that overdoing it..?

b) I know this isn't true (the intersection from n=1 to infinity of all open sets (-1/n, 1/n) = {0}, which is not an open set), but again I feel like I'm missing something - specifically proving that {0} is the intersection of all of those open sets, and proving {0} is not open.

I know these questions are incredibly straightforward, but my professor is kind of a stickler on the little details, especially the ones that seem pretty obvious. Thanks for the help!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
jinsing said:
a) Let U and V be open sets, x be in U \cap V, and a,b be real numbers. Then there exists open intervals (a1,b1) in U and (a2,b2) in V such that x is in (a1,b1) and x is in (a2,b2). Now let (a,b) = (a1,b1) \cap (a2,b2). Since x is in (a1, b1) and x is in (a2,b2), then x is in (a,b) and by definition is an open interval. Moreover, since (a,b) is a subset of U \cap V, then U \cap V is an open set.

This is good. However, it would be nice to state in the beginning that you are working with open sets in \mathbb{R}. Your argument does not hold for other spaces (as the open sets there are not necessarily generated by intervals).

Is there anything I'm missing from this proof, like proving that the intersection (a1,b1) \cap (a2,b2) is an open interval? Or is that overdoing it..?

This is crucial. I would include it.

b) I know this isn't true (the intersection from n=1 to infinity of all open sets (-1/n, 1/n) = {0}, which is not an open set), but again I feel like I'm missing something - specifically proving that {0} is the intersection of all of those open sets, and proving {0} is not open.

OK, you got the point. Now, where are you stuck? On proving that intersection, or proving that {0} isn't open??

By the way, it is possible to type LaTeX here. See this thread https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=546968
 
I'm basically stuck on proving the intersection (for both parts a and b) and proving 0 isn't open. I think I need just a shove in the right direction..they seem so self-explanatory to me that I don't know how to go about proving any of these things too rigorously.
 
OK, let's start by proving that {0} isn't open. We need definitions for this. How did you define open??
 
A set S is open if for all x in S there is an open interval (a,b) contained in S with x in (a,b).

Could we say that for any ε > 0 there is no open interval (0-ε, 0+ε) that is contained within {0}, so {0} isn't open? Or something like that?
 
jinsing said:
A set S is open if for all x in S there is an open interval (a,b) contained in S with x in (a,b).

Good. Let's apply this definition on {0}. Clearly, our x=0. So we must find an open interval (a,b)\subseteq \{0\} such that 0 is in (a,b). But then (a,b)=\{0\} has one element. Can you derive a contradiction from this?? (for example, by showing that (a,b) has more than one element).

For the intersection questions. You need to prove

(a,b)\cap (c,d)=(\max\{a,c\},\min\{b,d\})

and

\bigcap_{n\in \mathbb{N}_0}{(-1/n,1/n)}=\{0\}

These are just equalities of sets. Do you know how to show an equality of sets?? To prove A=B, just pick an x in A and show that it is in B and pick an x in B and show that it is in A.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
Replies
12
Views
3K
Replies
20
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K