News Is the Middle East's Troubles Linked to Israel?

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The discussion centers on the frustrations regarding Israeli military actions, particularly the killing of civilians, including a wheelchair-bound individual and children, which the original poster finds infuriating. There is a strong sentiment of disillusionment with the U.S. government's support for Israel, perceived as contributing to ongoing Middle Eastern conflicts. Participants debate the implications of Israeli settlements in Palestinian areas and the broader geopolitical dynamics, including the role of leadership in the peace process. The conversation also touches on perceived educational shortcomings in North America compared to Europe and Asia, with claims of manipulation and propaganda influencing public opinion. Overall, the thread reflects deep-seated anger and calls for greater awareness and understanding of the complex issues at play.
  • #31
Aquamarine said:
I consider the religious arguments to fall into the stupid category.
Well, good for you.

Please explain why the Jews, and the Moslems, should be expected to agree with your characterization of "the stupid category", whatever that might mean to you. BTW, what does it mean to you?
 
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  • #32
while muslims leaders corrupt and undemocartic ...israeli leaders HAVE NO RESPCT for palestininan life


none of em deserve to have control over jerusalem....if someone does then its the christians coz they've shown the most patience on this issue.
 
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  • #33
Fookie said:
SNIP

Hey buddy, you may want to delete that before you get banned.
 
  • #34
Perhaps you weren't watching your TV when they found a school kid crossing the border, strapped down with explosives ? And the actions of one or two errant guards do not belie a deeper, more widespread cruelty.


You clearly must have not read or heard the entire news story. The Israeli soldiers shot and killed a school girl wearing a backpack because they THOUGHT she was carrying explosives when in reality she was just running to school. After they shot and killed her, the Isreali soldiers' commander when up to the body and unloaded an entire machine gun magazine into the dead girls body. I think they found over 30 bullets in this little girl.
 
  • #35
**** those ***holes.

I don't really like politics much nor even do i want to be come one but after I read this ****ing news I got really mad. My words for those with no other comments are **** YOU **Holes.

I am really sorry for posting these dirty words but I can't really control myself at this moment. If you think it is bad of me to say something like that, please delete this post of mine and send me a note whether or not you agree with those ****ing Israeli behaviors.

Admin note: profanity removed.[/color]
 
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  • #36
gravenewworld said:
You clearly must have not read or heard the entire news story. The Israeli soldiers shot and killed a school girl wearing a backpack because they THOUGHT she was carrying explosives when in reality she was just running to school. After they shot and killed her, the Isreali soldiers' commander when up to the body and unloaded an entire machine gun magazine into the dead girls body. I think they found over 30 bullets in this little girl.

I did read/watch this story, and am aware of the details (except for the number of bullets used) you talk of.

Clearly, you seem to not be aware of a previous story where a 11 or 12 year old kid was caught (a few months ago) with a bagful of explosives.

Look, I'm not condoning this act in any way - I was as disgusted as others when I heard the reporter interviewing the Israeli soldier that squealed on his unit leader.

All I'm trying to say is that it's not as one-sided or as simplistic as tumor wants us to think it is.
 
  • #37
Gokul43201 said:
I did read/watch this story, and am aware of the details (except for the number of bullets used) you talk of.

Clearly, you seem to not be aware of a previous story where a 11 or 12 year old kid was caught (a few months ago) with a bagful of explosives.

Look, I'm not condoning this act in any way - I was as disgusted as others when I heard the reporter interviewing the Israeli soldier that squealed on his unit leader.

All I'm trying to say is that it's not as one-sided or as simplistic as tumor wants us to think it is.
Gokul, always the voice of reason
 
  • #38
Fookie said:
none of em deserve to have control over jerusalem....if someone does then its the christians coz they've shown the most patience on this issue.
Are you for real? None of em deserves but the Christians. You made my day with that one. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are joking.
 
  • #39
The probvlem is Gokul I'm still seeing aplogism, for quite frankly abhorent actions. here's a few points:

1) The wheelchair-bound Sheikh Yassin ceratinly was a member of Hamas, however he is not the most recent palestian in a wheelchair to be killed by the IDF, a palesttiian civlian was shot and killed in June was killed by Israeli soldiers during a protest. A disproportionate number of physcially and menatlly disabled people have been killed by the IDF, one of the main reasons for this is the shoot-on-site policy used to enforce curfews.

Also I'd point out that Yassin was never direcctly linked with any terroist attacks and few believe it likely that he ordered any terrorist attacks, as that was simply not the role he played in the organisation, so the question is should someone be killed for what they believ, hoewever abhorent you find that? (compare this to the assaimnation by a Palestian of a Jewish member of the Knesset, from one of the unabashedly racist settler parties there).

2) Mosr settlemnts are not in Palestinian towns, but more often than not they are are near Palestinian towns, howvere the main exception is the settlemnt in Hebron which is distributed throughout the Palestian town of Hebron. Most settlers are not US immigrants, certainly not all of them are ideologicl zealots many live in settlemtns due to the fact that they are heavily subsidised by the Israeli government. Howevre Hebron is a completely different kettle of fish; nearly all of the settlers their are relgious fundamentalists and there is a disproportionatly large number of US immigrants, the Hebron settlemtn is a hotbed of racism and is the heartland for KACH-related terrorist groups.

3) You say that in the recent shooting of the Palestian girl, that the IDF soldiers had good reason to think she was carrying explosives. No suicide attack has evr been carried out by anyone neraly this young, indeed even the the lovable Hamas have a policy of not allowing people this young to carry out attacks (indded the Isreali army never claimed thta they suspected her of carrying explosives). In the past children of simlair age have been used as muels to smuggle explosives across borders by Palestian terrorist groups.

5) The ratio of civilains-militants killed by the Israeli army during the current is approximately 50-50 (by their own admission they placed a mininmum value of the number of Palestians killed who were miltnats at about 40%, howver this was acouple of years ago), infact this is not much better than the Palestinian militant groups. During the current initfada just less than 50% of the Israeli deaths have been Israeli citizens within Israel (i.e. most of those killed have either been soldiers on active duty or non-soldiers in the occupied teroritries).

Israeli and inertnatinal human rights groups have documented many cases of human rights absues and disregard for life by the IDF, howver Israel rarely investigates these claims. A cae in point is the killing of Briton Tom Hurdnall in the OTs, Tom was shot whilst trying to save Palestian children from an IDF sniper, at the time Israel tired to cover-up the incident, even claiming that Tom was armed himself (the whole incident was caught on video which showed that IDf was just plain lying through it's nose as except for the IDf soldier there wer no other gunmen in the area). After sevral years of sustained diplomatic pressure from the UK Israel dediced to investigate the murder, the soldier involved admitted he was shooting the children for the hell of it and this was not the first time he had amused himself by doing such a thing, he's now facing crimanl charges. The main point is thatincidents like these are rarely investigated (this incident would never of been investigated if it was not for the tireless campaiging of Tom's parents) as the IDF has created a culture were soldiers can do anything they please to Palestinians without fear of reprisal (unless thye are unlucky enough to be caught on film or reported by their subordinates).
 
  • #41
Those articles are merely propaganda (you could of choosen a less obvious source than US-Israel), there has never been any direct evidnec offered of Palestian miltnats inetinally using Palestina civlains as 'human shields'. In fact the accusation is in many ways insulting as there have been sevral well-documeted occasions of the IDf using random Palestian civilians as human shields.

I suggest you contrast the picture painted in those articles with the pictures pianted by B'Tselem, HRW, AI and the UNHCHR.
 
  • #42
jcsd said:
Those articles are merely propaganda (you could of choosen a less obvious source than US-Israel), there has never been any direct evidnec offered of Palestian miltnats inetinally using Palestina civlains as 'human shields'. In fact the accusation is in many ways insulting as there have been sevral well-documeted occasions of the IDf using random Palestian civilians as human shields.

I suggest you contrast the picture painted in those articles with the pictures pianted by B'Tselem, HRW, AI and the UNHCHR.
Yes, they are biased. But they have references for their statements, including from Amnesty.
 
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  • #43
Also you might like to contast the diproptionate number of suicde bombers who have come from Hebron a town where the IDF is solely responsible for law and order and the prevntion of terrorism. In many ways it's Kafkaesque as throughout most of the initfada Israel has prohibted Palestian policeman from carrying guns, infact they gentrally shoot on site if they see any armed Palestian whethr he is a policeman or not, yet they blame the PA for not preventing Hamas carrying out attacks even though they have fialed completely in this task themselves.
 
  • #44
The majority of Palestinians support suicide bombings (also here).
The majority of Palestinians support the killing of Jewish civilians, including Jewish children (also here and here).
The majority of Palestinians do not accept Israel's right to exist.
The majority of Palestinians support the Sept 11th killings.
Palestinians dance in the streets on 9/11.
It was furiously claimed that these were just a small minority. But opinion polls showed this was not true. The majority of Palestinians supported 9/11.
73% of Palestinians supported suicide attacks against USA in Nov. 2000 poll
http://humphrys.humanists.net/judaism.html#modern.anti.semitism
 
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  • #45
Actuallt ehy have an AI cite for one spefic case, yet the reports of AI completely conflict with what they say in the rest of their articles. In fact AI has recommended that the US and other countries cease arms transfers to Israel as they are being used in human rights violations, in the same report it points out that Palestians killed where not killed whist Israel was fighting militants, but during protests (the article date from 2001 during the first few years of the initfada the vast majority of Palestians killed where protestors).
 
  • #46
jcsd said:
Also you might like to contast the diproptionate number of suicde bombers who have come from Hebron a town where the IDF is solely responsible for law and order and the prevntion of terrorism. In many ways it's Kafkaesque as throughout most of the initfada Israel has prohibted Palestian policeman from carrying guns, infact they gentrally shoot on site if they see any armed Palestian whethr he is a policeman or not, yet they blame the PA for not preventing Hamas carrying out attacks even though they have fialed completely in this task themselves.
References?
 
  • #47
Aquamarine said:
http://humphrys.humanists.net/judaism.html#modern.anti.semitism
So what quite frnakly, the majority of Israelis support milktary actions against the Palestians (and the majority has also been directly involve din some way as miltary service is madortay for all but Israel's Arab population and it's relgious nutjobs) but this does not mean that all Isareli civlians are legitmate targets.
 
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  • #49
I will never forgive Israelis for this;
 

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  • #51
tumor said:
I will never forgive Israelis for this;

Here are pictures and video of Palestinians celebrating 9/11, which most supported:
http://humphrys.humanists.net/judaism.html#moderate.islam

Or cheering the killing of women and children in Israel:
http://humphrys.humanists.net/israel.conflict.html
 
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  • #52
tumor said:
I will never forgive Israelis for this;


I can't believe your ignorance, bigotry, and refusal to enter into actual debate (instead opting for this hypocritical hatred).
 
  • #53
phatmonky said:
I can't believe your ignorance, bigotry, and refusal to enter into actual debate (instead opting for this hypocritical hatred).

I'm not hatefull, people who do things like that are hatefull.What is worst what happened in those few pictures was done by proffesional Israeli Army not by some brainwashed suicide bomber.
 
  • #54
Aquamarine said:
You have not subsantiated claims that most attack have come from Hebron, that this has occurred since Israel took control again or that Israel made the claim after that.

Neither have you given references for many other statements previously in this thread.

'Disproprtionate' does not mean most. The Israeli amry never really left Hebron, but they fully re-occuppoed the town at the end of 2002.

Hebron has a popuation of about 75,000 (almost eniterly Palestian), since the reoccupation 10 sucide bombers have strck Israel ain total at least 3 of them from Hebron.

The problem is your expecting me to fill in gaps in your knowledge when it is well know that the Hamas cell in hebron has been one of the most active cells. Basically find it out yourself rather thna relying on site slike US-Israel.
 
  • #55
tumor said:
But guys, you all forgot about one thing,very important thing;who pays Israels bills and gives them military equipment? USA of course,and your tax dollars end up hurting Palestinians.
We have to vote those *******s in White House out of the office or start revolt here, there is no easy way.Democrats or Republicans support Israeli policy 100%.
This country must be awaken from this intellectual coma in which we are now and do what for example French did in 1789 .Revolution is the only answer.

Yes. Anyone here can check there state exports online. Look how high Israel sits compared to others. Check the exports of those other countries compared to Israels.
 
  • #56
omin said:
Yes. Anyone here can check there state exports online. Look how high Israel sits compared to others. Check the exports of those other countries compared to Israels.

Thats because the Palestinians live there too, exporting terror.
 
  • #57
studentx said:
Thats because the Palestinians live there too, exporting terror.

What you talking about?
Palestinians only fight with jews(ocupiers) and maybe some of those mother ****ing "settlers" from New York.
 

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  • #58
tumor said:
What you talking about?
Palestinians only fight with jews(ocupiers) and maybe some of those mother ****ing "settlers" from New York.

Actually, they fight with small Israeli children and pregnant women. That jpg you posted is probably one of the victims of a palestinian serial killer.
 
  • #59
Both sides lie all the time,but remember Israeli story about Palestinian ambulances carrying home made rockets which of course was totall fabrication. Israelis are masters of deception any way, I never trust them.
 
  • #60
tumor said:
Both sides lie all the time,but remember Israeli story about Palestinian ambulances carrying home made rockets which of course was totall fabrication. Israelis are masters of deception any way, I never trust them.


More unvalidated claims on you behalf. No links? Afraid to rebut my posts earlier in this threaD?


Some of you have edged the line, and others crossed it, of pure bigotry and/or antisemitism
 

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