Is the Power Tower Method the Key to Solving Nonlinear ODEs?

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    Nonlinear Ode
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Power Tower Method and its application to solving nonlinear ordinary differential equations (ODEs). Participants explore various mathematical approaches and reasoning related to the method, including comparisons to simpler forms and connections to infinite power towers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a method involving a chain of exponentials to express a solution to the equation y^2 = y', questioning its correctness.
  • Another participant suggests a simpler approach by rearranging the equation to -1/y = x + C, leading to a more straightforward solution.
  • A third participant agrees that the original method is correct but criticizes it as overly complicated for a simple function.
  • Several participants introduce the concept of infinite power towers, specifically referencing a math contest problem where x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}} = 2, with the solution being √2.
  • Participants discuss the generalization of the infinite power tower solution, proposing that if x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}} = a > 0, then x = √a.
  • One participant questions the generalization, suggesting it should be a^{1/a} instead, and discusses convergence issues with different values.
  • Another participant notes that substituting certain values into the infinite power tower does not always converge to expected results, sharing specific numerical outcomes and referencing Mathematica's calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the complexity of the original method and its validity. There is also a lack of consensus on the generalization of the infinite power tower solutions and their convergence properties.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in convergence for certain values and the dependence on specific mathematical definitions, particularly regarding the behavior of the infinite power tower.

TylerH
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[tex]y^2=y' \Rightarrow y=\frac{y'}{y} \Rightarrow \int y dx = ln \left( y \right) \Rightarrow y=e^{\int y dx}=e^{\int e^{\int y dx} dx}=e^{\int e^{\int e^{\int y dx} dx} dx}=\cdots[/tex]

Is that correct?
 
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Why not just say:
[tex] \frac{y'}{y^{2}}=1\Rightarrow -\frac{1}{y}=x+C[/tex]
 
Which is the same as y= -1/(x+C) so that [itex]\int ydx= -ln(x+C)+ C_2[/itex] so that
[itex]e^{\int ydx}=C_2 \frac{1}{x+ C}= \frac{-1}{x+ C}= y[/itex]
so, yes, your chain of exponentials is correct- but a very complicated way of writing a very simple function.
 
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This reminds me of a problem in a math contest I once saw. Solve:

[tex]x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}} = 2[/tex]

The answer is [itex]\sqrt{2}[/itex].
 
hunt_mat said:
Why not just say:
[tex] \frac{y'}{y^{2}}=1\Rightarrow -\frac{1}{y}=x+C[/tex]

Yeah, I found the real solution. But, it's the fact that something so contrived is equal to something so simple that makes it awesome.
 
pmsrw3 said:
This reminds me of a problem in a math contest I once saw. Solve:

[tex]x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}} = 2[/tex]

The answer is [itex]\sqrt{2}[/itex].

That was the first thing that came to mind. Btw, you [STRIKE]would[/STRIKE] could solve that "infinite power tower" using (4) here: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LambertW-Function.html.
 
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pmsrw3 said:
This reminds me of a problem in a math contest I once saw. Solve:

[tex]x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}} = 2[/tex]

The answer is [itex]\sqrt{2}[/itex].
If
[tex]x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}}= 2[/tex]
then
[tex]x^{\left(x^{x^{x^\ldots}}\right)}= x^2=2[/tex]

More generally, if
[tex]x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}}= a> 0[/tex]
then [itex]x=\sqrt{a}[/itex].
 
HallsofIvy said:
If
[tex]x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}}= 2[/tex]
then
[tex]x^{\left(x^{x^{x^\ldots}}\right)}= x^2=2[/tex]

More generally, if
[tex]x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}}= a> 0[/tex]
then [itex]x=\sqrt{a}[/itex].
almost:
[itex]x=\sqrt[a]{a}[/itex]
 
HallsofIvy said:
If
[tex]x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}}= 2[/tex]
then
[tex]x^{\left(x^{x^{x^\ldots}}\right)}= x^2=2[/tex]

More generally, if
[tex]x^{x^{x^{x^\ldots}}}= a> 0[/tex]
then [itex]x=\sqrt{a}[/itex].
Actually, it should be [itex]a^{1/a}[/itex], no?

But this is true only if there is a solution. When I substitute [itex]\sqrt{2}[/itex] for x and iterate it, it does indeed converge to 2. But when I try it for cube root of 3, it doesn't converge to 3. It converges, but to 2.47805. What's more, when I ask Mathematica for [itex]-\frac{\text{ProductLog}[-\text{Log}[z]]}{\text{Log}[z]}[/itex], which is supposed to give the infinite power tower of z (see http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PowerTower.html), it does in fact come to 2.47805. MathWorld says it converges only up to [itex]e^{1/e}[/itex]. The interesting thing is, [itex]2.47805^{1/2.47805}[/itex] equals the cube root of 3.
 

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