Is the product of two hermitian matrices always hermitian?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the Hermiticity of the momentum operator squared, ##p^2##, and its fourth power, ##p^4##, particularly in the context of hydrogen states with angular momentum quantum number ##l=0##. Participants explore the implications of Hermitian operators in quantum mechanics, referencing a theorem regarding the product of Hermitian matrices and questioning the validity of claims made in a textbook.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that if ##p^2## is Hermitian, then ##p^4## must also be Hermitian, questioning the validity of claims that ##p^4## is not Hermitian in certain states.
  • Others argue that the context provided in the textbook suggests an error in the specific case of ##l=0##, where ##p^4## is not Hermitian.
  • There are claims that the Hermiticity of ##p^2## does not necessarily extend to ##p^4## due to boundary terms that may not vanish.
  • Some participants express confusion about the definitions and implications of Hermiticity for operators in specific states, suggesting that the relationship may not hold universally.
  • Discussions arise regarding the differentiability of kets and the conditions under which the operators can be applied, with some asserting that all involved functions are differentiable.
  • Participants also discuss the implications of non-Hermiticity for measurements, questioning the physical meaning of obtaining complex values if ##p^4## is not Hermitian.
  • There is mention of boundary terms that are either exactly zero or not, contributing to the complexity of the argument regarding the Hermiticity of ##p^2## and ##p^4##.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the Hermiticity of ##p^4## in the context of ##l=0## states. Multiple competing views remain regarding the implications of the theorem on Hermitian matrices and the specific cases discussed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of operators and the conditions under which they are applied. The discussion highlights unresolved mathematical steps and the need for clarity on boundary terms in the context of Hermiticity.

  • #91
Hans de Vries said:
So, with the (correct) version of the post above we may write more general for ##P=\hat{p}_r##:

##\hat{p}_r~~=~~ i\hbar\left(\dfrac{\partial}{\partial r} +\dfrac{1}{r}\right)##

For an arbitrary power ##\hat{p}_r^n## we can write

##\hat{p}^n_r~~=~~ (i\hbar)^n\left(\dfrac{\partial}{\partial r} +\dfrac{n}{r}\right)\left(\dfrac{\partial}{\partial r}\right)^{n-1}##

or alternatively:

##\hat{p}^n_r~~=~~ (i\hbar)^n\left(\dfrac{1}{r^n}\dfrac{\partial}{\partial r}r^n\right)\left(\dfrac{\partial}{\partial r}\right)^{n-1}##
But these powers have different domains, which causes the problems discussed in the present thread.
 
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  • #92
Happiness said:
Intro to QM, David Griffiths, p269
View attachment 248344
Screen Shot 2019-08-29 at 11.54.34 AM.png
 
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  • #94
A. Neumaier said:
It is the Lebesgue integral over ##R^3##, but only if you say that ##x## denote Cartesian coordinates.
The integral is over Euclidean ##\mathbb{R}^3## and as such the volume element is independent of the choice of coordinates,
$$\mathrm{d}^3 x = \epsilon_{ijk} \partial_i \vec{x} \partial_j \vec{x} \partial_k \vec{x} \mathrm{d}^3 q.$$
Of course, it's this specific integral measure to be used in the Hilbert space, because we are dealing with a representation/realization of the Galilei group, where space is Euclidean.
 
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