Is the relation between limit points and closed sets clear? (Wondering)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between limit points and closed sets in a metric space, specifically examining definitions and properties related to closed sets, continuity of functions defined via distance to sets, and the construction of a continuous function that transitions between two disjoint closed sets. The scope includes theoretical aspects and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines a distance function \(d_A\) for a subset \(A\) of a metric space and proposes that \(A\) is closed if \(d(x,A)=0\) implies \(x \in A\).
  • Another participant suggests that the continuity of \(d_A\) can be shown using the triangle inequality and infimum properties.
  • There is a proposal to define a continuous function \(f\) that takes values \(0\) on \(A\) and \(1\) on \(B\), but participants express uncertainty about how to define \(f\) outside of \(A\) and \(B\).
  • Some participants discuss the need for a function that is continuous across the entire space \(X\) and transitions smoothly between the values assigned to \(A\) and \(B\).
  • A suggestion is made to define \(f(x) = \frac{d_A(x)}{d_A(x) + d_B(x)}\), which is claimed to be continuous and correctly assigns values at the boundaries of sets \(A\) and \(B\).
  • Participants question whether the condition \(d(x,A)=0\) implies that all limit points of \(A\) are contained in \(A\), reflecting on the definitions of limit points and closed sets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the definitions and properties of closed sets and continuity, with no consensus reached on the best approach to defining the function \(f\) or on the implications of limit points in relation to closed sets.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the function \(f\) must be defined for all \(x \in X\) and that the continuity of \(f\) depends on the definitions of \(d_A\) and \(d_B\). There are also unresolved questions regarding the implications of \(d(x,A)=0\) for limit points.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Let $(X, d)$ be a metric space. For $A \subseteq X$ und $x \in X$ we define $d_A : X \rightarrow \mathbb{R}$ by \begin{equation*}d_A(x):=\inf\{d(x,y)\mid y\in A\}\end{equation*}
I want to prove the below statements:
  1. $A$ is closed iff for all $x\in X$ with $d(x,A)=0$ it holds that $x\in A$.
  2. The map $d_A:X\rightarrow \mathbb{R}$ is continuous.
  3. Let $A,B\subseteq X$ be disjunctive, closed subsets. Then there is a continuous function $f:X\rightarrow [0,1]$ such that $$f(x)=0\iff x\in A\ \text{ and } \ f(x)=1\iff x\in B$$

I have done the following:
  1. Since $A$ is closed, it holds that $\forall x\in X\setminus A : \exists \epsilon >0 : B_{\epsilon}(x)\cap A=\emptyset$.

    A ball $B_{\epsilon}(x)$ is the set of all points $y\in X$ satisfying $d(x,y)<\epsilon$.

    Is the definition correct so far? How could we continue? (Wondering)

    $$$$
  2. Let $a\in A$.

    We have that $d_A(x)=\inf\{d(x,y)\mid y\in A\}\leq d(x,a)$. Applying the triangle inequality we get $d(x,a)\leq d(x,y)+d(y,a)$. That means that we have $d_A(x)\leq d(x,y)+d(y,a)$.

    We take the infimum over $a\in A$ and we get: $\inf_ad_A(x)\leq \inf_a\left (d(x,y)+d(y,a)\right ) \Rightarrow d_A(x)\leq d(x,y)+\inf_ad(y,a)$.

    Since $(X,d)$ is a metric space, we have that $d$ is a metric and the property of symmetry is satisfied, and so we have $d(x,y)=d(y,x)$.

    Therefore we get $d_A(x)\leq d(x,y)+\inf_ad(a,y)\Rightarrow d_A(x)\leq d(x,y)+\inf_ad(y,a) \Rightarrow d_A(x)\leq d(x,y)+d_A(y) \Rightarrow d_A(x)-d_A(y)\leq d(x,y)$


    Let $\varepsilon>0$. We choose $\delta:=\varepsilon$. Then, if $d(x,y)<\delta$, we have that $|d_A(x)-d_A(y)|\leq d(x,y)<\varepsilon$.

    This means that $d_A$ is continuous.

    Is everything correct? (Wondering)

    $$$$
  3. Could you give me a hint for this one? i got stuck right now. (Wondering)
 
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mathmari said:
3. Could you give me a hint for this one? i got stuck right now. (Wondering)

You can define the function $f$ explicitly in terms of $d_A$ and $d_B$. Use that:

From the definition of $d_A$ and 1. it follows that $d_A(x) = 0$ iff $x \in A$, and likewise for $d_B$.
The continuity of $f$ follows from 2.
 
Janssens said:
You can define the function $f$ explicitly in terms of $d_A$ and $d_B$. Use that:

From the definition of $d_A$ and 1. it follows that $d_A(x) = 0$ iff $x \in A$, and likewise for $d_B$.
The continuity of $f$ follows from 2.

So do you mean that we should define the function as follows?
$$f(x)=\begin{cases}d_A(x) , x\in A\\ 1-d_B(x) , x\in B\end{cases}$$

(Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
So do you mean that we should define the function as follows?
$$f(x)=\begin{cases}d_A(x) , x\in A\\ 1-d_B(x) , x\in B\end{cases}$$

(Wondering)
That function is only defined on $A$ and $B$. What is needed here is a function defined on the whole of $X$. It should take the value $0$ on $A$, $1$ on $B$, and go continuously from $0$ to $1$ in the region "between" $A$ and $B$.
 
Opalg said:
That function is only defined on $A$ and $B$. What is needed here is a function defined on the whole of $X$. It should take the value $0$ on $A$, $1$ on $B$, and go continuously from $0$ to $1$ in the region "between" $A$ and $B$.

I haven't really understood how we define the function in the case $x\in X\setminus (A\cup B)$ so that it goes continuously from $0$ to $1$ in the region "between" $A$ and $B$. Could you explain to me further? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
So do you mean that we should define the function as follows?
$$f(x)=\begin{cases}d_A(x) , x\in A\\ 1-d_B(x) , x\in B\end{cases}$$

(Wondering)

In addition to the reply by Opalg (which is of course to the point), I would recommend that you make an "inspired guess":

(i) Can you write down a function $f$ that is $0$ on $A$ and $1$ on $B$, using nothing but $d_A$ and $d_B$?

(ii) Once you have a candidate, then try to prove: If $f(x) = 0$ then $x \in A$ and if $f(x) = 1$ then $x \in B$.

Did the candidate do the job? Good, then you are done. Did step (ii) fail? Then try to make small modifications to $f$ such that (i) remains true, hoping that you can make (ii) hold as well.
 
Janssens said:
In addition to the reply by Opalg (which is of course to the point), I would recommend that you make an "inspired guess":

(i) Can you write down a function $f$ that is $0$ on $A$ and $1$ on $B$, using nothing but $d_A$ and $d_B$?

(ii) Once you have a candidate, then try to prove: If $f(x) = 0$ then $x \in A$ and if $f(x) = 1$ then $x \in B$.

Did the candidate do the job? Good, then you are done. Did step (ii) fail? Then try to make small modifications to $f$ such that (i) remains true, hoping that you can make (ii) hold as well.

From the subquestion 1. we have that since $A$ is closed it follows that if $d(x,A)=0$ then $x\in A$. Can we say that $d(x,A)=0 \iff x\in A$ ?

If $d(x,A)=0$ then it holds that $d_A(x)=0$, correct?

Similarily, the same holds also for $B$.

I haven't really understood how to define the function $f$ using $d_B$ so that it is equal to $1$ when $x\in B$.

Could you give me a hint? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
From the subquestion 1. we have that since $A$ is closed it follows that if $d(x,A)=0$ then $x\in A$. Can we say that $d(x,A)=0 \iff x\in A$ ?

If $d(x,A)=0$ then it holds that $d_A(x)=0$, correct?

Similarily, the same holds also for $B$.
Yes, that is correct.

mathmari said:
I haven't really understood how to define the function $f$ using $d_B$ so that it is equal to $1$ when $x\in B$.

Could you give me a hint? (Wondering)
I found this part of the problem quite difficult, and I don't see how to give a hint other than giving away the answer.
[sp]How about the function $f(x) = \dfrac{d_A(x)}{d_A(x) + d_B(x)}$?

That function is defined for all $x$ in $X$ (because the denominator of the fraction is never $0$). It is a continuous function; it takes values in the interval $[0,1]$; and it takes the value $0$ iff $x\in A$ and the value $1$ iff $x\in B$.[/sp]
 
Opalg said:
Yes, that is correct.I found this part of the problem quite difficult, and I don't see how to give a hint other than giving away the answer.
[sp]How about the function $f(x) = \dfrac{d_A(x)}{d_A(x) + d_B(x)}$?

That function is defined for all $x$ in $X$ (because the denominator of the fraction is never $0$). It is a continuous function; it takes values in the interval $[0,1]$; and it takes the value $0$ iff $x\in A$ and the value $1$ iff $x\in B$.[/sp]

Ahh ok? Now I see what you meant! (Nerd)
Is my answer at the second question, that $d_A$ is continuous, correct and complete? (Wondering)
Let's consider the first question.

We suppose that $\forall x\in X : d(x,A)=0\Rightarrow x\in A$. By definition it holds that $\displaystyle{d(x,A)=\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty}d(x, a_n)}$ and so it holds that $\displaystyle{\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty}d(x, a_n)=0}$. Does this mean that all limit points of $A$ are contained in $A$ ? (Wondering)
 

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