Is the Set of Differentiable Points of a Function a Borel Set?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether the set of points at which a continuous function is differentiable constitutes a Borel set. Participants explore various approaches to demonstrate this, including the use of limits and sequences of functions, while also considering counterexamples that challenge the proposed arguments.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the set of differentiable points can be defined using the limit of a sequence of functions, specifically $f_n(x) = n(f(x + 1/n) - f(x))$, and argue that this leads to a Borel set.
  • Others express unease about this argument, citing a counterexample where a continuous function, $f(x) = x\sin\bigl(\frac{\pi}x \bigr)$, is not differentiable at $0$, yet the limit $\lim_{n\to \infty} f_n(0)$ exists.
  • A later reply refines the argument by suggesting that the set of differentiable points can be expressed as a countable intersection of unions of sets defined by difference quotients, which are closed and thus Borel.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are competing views regarding the validity of the initial argument and the implications of the counterexample presented.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the potential oversimplification of the relationship between continuity and differentiability, as well as the need for careful consideration of the definitions and conditions under which the differentiability is assessed.

Fermat1
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Let $f:R->R$ be a continuous function. Prove that set of points $f$ is differentiable at is a borel set.

I need to get to this set by union/intersection of intervals but how? I guess I'm missing a theorem about differentiable points and cotinuity

Thanks
 
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Fermat said:
Let $f:R->R$ be a continuous function. Prove that set of points $f$ is differentiable at is a borel set.

I need to get to this set by union/intersection of intervals but how? I guess I'm missing a theorem about differentiable points and cotinuity

Thanks

Let $X$ denote the set of points $x$ in $\Bbb R$ such that $f$ is differentiable at $x$. Then $x \in X$ if and only if the limit $\lim_{n\to \infty} f_n(x)$ exists, where

$$f_n(x) = n(f(x + 1/n) - f(x)).$$

Since $f$ is continuous, $f_n$ is a sequence of continuous (hence measurable) functions. So the set

$$X = \{x \in \Bbb R: \lim_{n\to \infty} f_n(x)\; \text{exists}\}$$

is Borel.
 
Euge said:
Let $X$ denote the set of points $x$ in $\Bbb R$ such that $f$ is differentiable at $x$. Then $x \in X$ if and only if the limit $\lim_{n\to \infty} f_n(x)$ exists, where

$$f_n(x) = n(f(x + 1/n) - f(x)).$$

Since $f$ is continuous, $f_n$ is a sequence of continuous (hence measurable) functions. So the set

$$X = \{x \in \Bbb R: \lim_{n\to \infty} f_n(x)\; \text{exists}\}$$

is Borel.
That argument ought to work. But I am uneasy about it.

Example: Let $f(x) = x\sin\bigl(\frac{\pi}x \bigr)$, with $f(0) = 0.$ Then $f$ is continuous, but not differentiable at $0$. Yet $n(f(0 + 1/n) - f(0)) = n(\sin(n\pi) - \sin0) = 0.$ So $$\lim_{n\to \infty} f_n(0)$$ exists, despite $f$ not being differentiable at $0$.
 
Opalg said:
That argument ought to work. But I am uneasy about it.

Example: Let $f(x) = x\sin\bigl(\frac{\pi}x \bigr)$, with $f(0) = 0.$ Then $f$ is continuous, but not differentiable at $0$. Yet $n(f(0 + 1/n) - f(0)) = n(\sin(n\pi) - \sin0) = 0.$ So $$\lim_{n\to \infty} f_n(0)$$ exists, despite $f$ not being differentiable at $0$.

Yes, that's right. What I gave is too simplified. Rather, $X$ can be equated with the set $\cap_{m \ge 1} \cup_{n \ge 1} X(m,n)$, where

$$ X(m,n) = \cap_{0 < |h| < \frac1{n}} \cap_{0 < |k| < \frac1{n}} \{x\in \Bbb R: |\Delta_hf(x) - \Delta_kf(x)| \le \frac1{m}\} $$

and $\Delta_uf(x)$ denotes the difference quotient $(f(x + u) - f(x))/u$. Since $f$ is continuous, $\Delta_uf$ is continuous for every $u$, so the sets

$$ \{x\in \Bbb R: |\Delta_hf(x) - \Delta_kf(x)| \le \frac1{m}\}$$

are all closed. Then the sets $X(m,n)$ are all closed. Consequently, for every $m$, the union $\cup_{n \ge 1} X(m,n)$ is Borel. Therefore, $X$ is the countable intersection of Borel sets, which shows that $X$ is Borel.
 

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