Is the starshade going to be positioned in a fixed location?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the operational positioning of the starshade in relation to its coupled telescope, particularly whether it will remain in a fixed location or require regular movement. Participants explore the implications of its distance from the telescope and the fuel requirements for maneuvering in space.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the starshade will need to be moved regularly to align with the telescope's observations, which raises concerns about fuel consumption for such maneuvers.
  • Others propose that with careful planning and the use of ion thrusters, the starshade can be moved efficiently with minimal fuel over time.
  • There is a question about the significance of placing the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) at a Lagrange point compared to the starshade's operational requirements, with some speculating that the starshade's lighter weight may allow for different fuel needs.
  • Participants discuss the potential for the starshade to follow various orbital paths around the JWST, including halo orbits, which could influence fuel efficiency.
  • Concerns are raised about the fuel requirements for both the starshade and JWST, with references to delta-v as a measure of the thrust needed for orbital changes.
  • Some participants question why satellites orbiting the same point would have different fuel requirements, suggesting that the starshade's need to maneuver to block starlight may necessitate more fuel than the JWST.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the starshade will be fixed or mobile, and there are multiple competing views regarding the implications of its positioning and fuel requirements.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the specific fuel requirements for the starshade and JWST, as well as the implications of their respective orbits around the Lagrange point. The discussion includes references to delta-v and the potential for different operational strategies, but these aspects remain unresolved.

roineust
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Is the starshade going to be positioned in a fixed location in space or is it going to be moved around space on regular basis, in relation to where its coupled telescope will be pointing at? The reason for asking this is that i read (Methods, last section) that the starshade is going to be located at a distance of 72,000km away from its coupled telescope. If the starshade has to move in such a radius around its coupled telescope on regular basis, isn't that a lot of rocket fuel needed to make such maneuvers many times?
 
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It has to be moved. With some planning, ion thrusters and a lot of time you can do this with tiny amounts of fuel.

Cassini made about 100 close fly-bys at Titan and many fly-bys of other moons with minimal delta_v, using the gravitational attraction of the moons to change the orbit.
 
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How come there is such a significance in putting the James Webb at a Lagrange point, while its starshade can be satisfied with ion thruststers? Is it because the starshade weighs much less? Is it because 72,000km is still within the Lagrange point?
 
Getting the star shade to L2 would still need a large rocket, but moving it around once it is there would not. Moving JWST relatively to the Lagrange point wouldn't need a big rocket either, although that would be less efficient than moving the lighter star shade.
 
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roineust said:
Is the starshade going to be positioned in a fixed location in space or is it going to be moved around space on regular basis, in relation to where its coupled telescope will be pointing at? The reason for asking this is that i read (Methods, last section) that the starshade is going to be located at a distance of 72,000km away from its coupled telescope. If the starshade has to move in such a radius around its coupled telescope on regular basis, isn't that a lot of rocket fuel needed to make such maneuvers many times?

JWST will be on a Lissajous orbit (halo orbit) around L2:
The telescope will circle about the L2 point in a halo orbit, which will be inclined with respect to the ecliptic, have a radius of approximately 800,000 kilometers (500,000 mi), and take about half a year to complete.
The star shade could lead, follow, orbit inclined, or make a larger or smaller halo orbit. You could use a lot of ellipses if the 72,000 is flexible. You could line up the same star 2 times per year with minimal maneuver.
JWST plans to use 2 to 4 m/s fuel per year to stay in orbit. You could time that to help line ups. Starshade could bring extra fuel to get better shots.
 
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stefan r said:
2 to 4 m/s fuel
What does that term mean?

As well,
1. Would the starshade use fuel as well? More than 2 to 4 m/s per year or less?
2. Isn't a very important reason to positioning the JWT in a Lagrange point, is to save up fuel? If the answer is that it is, is 72000km wawy from the JWT, still within an area that has these fuel saving properties?
 
roineust said:
What does that term mean?

Delta-v. Is a way of measuring thrust needed to change orbits. Getting to Sun-Earth Lagrange 2 will take around 12,000 m/s.

roineust said:
1. Would the starshade use fuel as well? More than 2 to 4 m/s per year or less?
2. Isn't a very important reason to positioning the JWT in a Lagrange point, is to save up fuel? If the answer is that it is, is 72000km wawy from the JWT, still within an area that has these fuel saving properties?

Satelites orbiting L2 are orbiting a point in space. If they are both circling the same point why would they have different fuel requirements?

I assume that astronomers will eventually pick specific stars that are not perfectly lined up with the plane of the orbit. Getting into the ideal location would take some fuel. Staying slightly off of an ideal halo orbit would take a little more fuel (delta-v). The estimated price listed on wikipedia was $750 million for one starshade. It would probably lighter weight than the JWST so more delta-v might mean less fuel consumed.
 
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stefan r said:
Satelites orbiting L2 are orbiting a point in space. If they are both circling the same point why would they have different fuel requirements?
The star shade would maneuver to block the starlight of target stars, while JWST would just make sure it stays close to L2.

Here is a detailed discussion. The star shade would get an ion thruster and one ton of xenon (see page 12), enough to move between many different targets over its lifetime of a few years (many km/s delta_v).
 
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