Is the Sun Anchored? | Experiments & Feedback

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether the Sun is "anchored" in its position relative to the planets in the solar system. Participants explore the implications of gravitational forces, particularly in the context of Newton's third law, and the concept of barycenters in celestial mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the Sun is anchored due to the gravitational forces exerted by the planets, although they express uncertainty about their understanding of Newton's third law.
  • Another participant argues that if the planets exert a gravitational force on the Sun, causing it to move, then the Sun cannot be considered anchored.
  • A participant explains that two objects orbit around their common center of gravity, or barycenter, and notes that the Sun's position is affected by all planets, with Jupiter having the most significant impact.
  • One participant shares a web page demonstrating how each planet affects the Sun's position relative to the barycenter, supporting the claim about Jupiter's influence.
  • Another participant acknowledges the simplification in online models that fix the Sun's position at the center, noting that this is a common approximation for ease of calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the Sun is anchored, with some supporting the idea that it moves due to gravitational interactions, while others challenge this notion. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the nature of the Sun's position relative to the planets.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the concept of barycenters and the complexities involved in calculating the Sun's position due to the gravitational effects of various planets, particularly Jupiter. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations of simplified models in online simulations.

Oscar Wilde
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By "Is the sun anchored" I am referring to its place relative to the planets.

I am pretty sure the answer is yes, as the planets also exert a gravitational force upon the sun (Newton's third law). This would cause the sun to "move" somewhat, no matter how small the force exerted. Then again, I may be completely wrong. I think my general statement is right because I performed a few experiments online with a similar solar-system like structure.

All feedback appreciated,


Thanks!
 
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Oscar Wilde said:
By "Is the sun anchored" I am referring to its place relative to the planets.

I am pretty sure the answer is yes, as the planets also exert a gravitational force upon the sun (Newton's third law). This would cause the sun to "move" somewhat, no matter how small the force exerted. Then again, I may be completely wrong. I think my general statement is right because I performed a few experiments online with a similar solar-system like structure.

All feedback appreciated,


Thanks!

Doesn't your logic show that the answer is no? If the planets exert a gravitational force on the sun, causing motion, then the sun wouldn't be anchored.
 
Yes I am pretty sure it does move but I wanted to make sure I was not misunderstanding Newton's third law or something of that nature
 
Two objects orbit around their common centre of gravity - called the barycentre (or barycenter if you drive on the wrong side of the road)
The Earth-moon barycentre is a point inside the Earth - about half way to the centre.

For the sun all the planets in the solar system have their own effec ton the position and so it is complicated to work out and is constantly changing - but ALMOST all of the effect comes from Jupiter, the sun-jupiter barycentre is just outside the sun's surface so the sun isn't really at the centre of the solar system.
 
Thank you very much! I'll have to investigate barycentres more
 
Wow Tony, I investigated the site and found it to be very informative. I was surprised at the order of effects, thanks for sharing the url with me.
 
The other online models you refer to in the OP most likely did fix the position of the sun at the center. This is a decent approximation and makes the math much easier. But these are just little java programs, not experiments.
 

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