Is the system linear if there is an independant gravity term

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether a system can be considered linear if it includes an independent gravitational force term that is not a function of the state variable. Participants explore the implications of this term on the linearity of the system, particularly in the context of equations of motion and the principle of superposition.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the presence of an independent gravitational force means the system is nonlinear, suggesting that it does not obey the linearity condition f(ax) = af(x).
  • Another participant asks for clarification on which variable is being referred to when discussing linearity.
  • A participant expresses a belief that any terms in the equation of motion not associated with input or output indicate a nonlinear system, as they violate the law of superposition.
  • An example is provided illustrating that while y = a^2x can be linear in one context, it becomes nonlinear when considering a as a variable rather than a constant.
  • A participant presents a specific equation f - mg - u = 0, questioning if the presence of a scalar multiple of the force would still yield a linear response.
  • Another participant agrees that a scalar multiple of the force would not lead to a scalar multiple of the mass if disturbances do not scale similarly.
  • There is uncertainty expressed regarding the classification of the system as nonlinear, with participants reflecting on their interpretations.
  • One participant concludes that the system is likely nonlinear based on their interpretation of the previous posts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the system is linear or nonlinear, with multiple competing views and interpretations remaining present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying assumptions about the definitions of linearity and the role of independent terms in the equations of motion, which may affect their conclusions.

silentwf
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Like the topic,if in my system derivation, there is an independent gravitational force independent of the state variable, is my system linear? I believe it is not but my instructor is telling is it is. I'm thinking that if there is is an extra gravitational term,the output of the system does not obey f(ax ) = af(x).
 
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Linear in which variable?
Can you add some context to your question?
 
Um, could you explain further by which variable you mean? I think I have the misconception that if there are any terms in the equation of motion not associated to input or output, the system is nonlinear, since the equation itself, when input or output is multiplied by a constant, does not follow the law of superposition.
 
Simple example: ##y=a^2x##

y and x have a linear relationship - if you multiply x by 2, y gets multiplied by 2 as well. The system is linear, if you consider "a" as a constant parameter, and look at x and y. You can add multiple solutions as superpositions.

y and a do not have a linear relationship - if you multiply a by 2, y gets multiplied by 4. The system is not linear, if you consider "x" as a constant parameter, and look at a and y. You cannot add multiple solutions as superposition.
 
Okay, um then I should make it something like this: if my system is equation is something like:
f - mg - u = 0 where f is the input and u is a disturbance (both are functions of time).
having a scalar multiple of my force would not increase the system's response in a linear way. does this mean that this system is not linear?
f(a*t) - mg - u(t) = 0
 
A scalar multiple of the force would not lead to a scalar multiple of the mass (if u does not scale in the same way), indeed.
 
So the system is non-linear? It's kind of strange to think of it in this way, so I'm not really sure.
 
I think it is non-linear with the interpretation as in post #5.
 

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