Is there a 4D compact smooth manifold with specific properties?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter lavinia
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Example
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of a 4-dimensional compact smooth manifold that meets specific criteria: it must be orientable, smoothly embeddable in R^8, have an odd Euler characteristic, and possess a zero second Stiefel-Whitney class. Participants explore various properties and implications of these conditions, engaging in technical reasoning and mathematical arguments.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes CP^2 as a candidate for the manifold.
  • Another participant challenges this by stating that the second Stiefel-Whitney class of CP^2 is nonvanishing, referencing a source.
  • A participant clarifies that a spin structure exists if and only if the second Stiefel-Whitney class vanishes, suggesting that finding a spin 4-manifold with odd b_2 could fulfill the requirements.
  • One participant expresses doubt about the existence of such a manifold, arguing that embedding in R^8 leads to contradictions regarding the Stiefel-Whitney classes of the tangent and normal bundles.
  • Another participant requests clarification on the argument regarding the Thom class of the normal bundle and its implications for the Euler class.
  • Further clarification is sought on the relationship between the Whitney classes of the tangent and normal bundles, with a focus on the implications of orientability.
  • A participant references the Whitney embedding theorem, suggesting that the second condition of embedding in R^8 is unnecessary, and cites a source claiming that closed spin 4-manifolds have even Euler characteristics.
  • Another participant reiterates the argument that the manifold cannot be embedded in R^8, reinforcing the conclusion that the Euler characteristic must be even.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of a suitable manifold. There are competing views regarding the implications of the properties discussed, particularly concerning the Euler characteristic and the conditions for embedding in R^8.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of various mathematical properties, including the Whitney classes and the relationship between the tangent and normal bundles. The discussion highlights unresolved aspects related to the existence of a manifold that meets all specified criteria.

lavinia
Science Advisor
Messages
3,385
Reaction score
760
I am looking for an example of a 4 dimensional compact smooth manifold that has the following properties

- it is orientable

- it can be smoothly embedded in R^8

- its Euler characteristic is odd

- its second Stiefel-Whitney class is zero
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Cp^2
 
afaik, the second stiefel-whitney class of CP^2 is nonvanishing (corollary 11.15 of Milnor-Stasheff).
 
[Sorry, I confused in fact 'spin' with 'symplectic'.]

from MathWorld:

'A spin structure exists if and only if the second Stiefel-Whitney class
w2 of the tangent bundle of the manifold vanishes.'

So, it is enough to find a spin 4-manifold with b_2 odd to complete the
example. I am not an expert, but seems that there are lots of such
spaces.
 
I am beginning to think that there is no example.

I am not sure if this argument is right but here goes.

Embed the manifold in R^8. The Stiefel-Whitney classes of the normal bundle must cancel the Stiefel-Whitney classes of the tangent bundle.

Since the tangent bundle is orientable and has zero second Stiefel-Whitney class the 4'th Stiefel Whitney class of the normal bundle must cancel the 4'th Stiefel-Whitney class of the tangent bundle and so can not be zero because the Euler characteristic of the manifold is odd.

But the Thom class of the normal bundle is zero because R^8 has no cohomology (with compact supports) except in dimension 8.
 
Could you explain the last part of your argument please? (But the Thom class of the normal bundle is zero because R^8 has no cohomology (with compact supports) except in dimension 8.)

And also, why does w_1(\tau_M)w_3(\tau_M^{\perp})+w_3(\tau_M)w_1(\tau_M^{\perp})=0??
 
Last edited:
quasar987 said:
Could you explain the last part of your argument please? (But the Thom class of the normal bundle is zero because R^8 has no cohomology (with compact supports) except in dimension 8.)

And also, why does w_1(\tau_M)w_3(\tau_M^{\perp})+w_3(\tau_M)w_1(\tau_M^{\perp})=0??
the first Whitney class of the tangent bundle is zero because the manifold is orientable. Since the sum of the normal and tangent bundles is trivial - because the tangent bundle of euclidean space is trivial - the normal bundle must also be orientable. So each term in the sum of the products of the odd whitney classes in the fourth mod 2 cohomology group is zero.

Poincare duality says that the Thom class of the normal bundle is dual to the homology class of the embedded manifold.But the embedded manifold is homologous to zero. Thus the Euler class of the normal bundle is zero and reducing mod 2, the 4'th Whitney class of the normal bundle is also zero.

If one compactifies R^8 into an 8 dimensional sphere, then one sees that the Thom class is null homologous since the 8 sphere has zero cohomology except in dimension 8.
 
Last edited:
You may be right. Let me notice that by the Whitney embedding theorem every smooth n-manifold embeds smoothly in 2n-Euclidean space. So your second condition is superfluous.
Now, as your manifold is orientable with w2=0, it is a spin manifold. And that’s what i found in a book by Stephen Hawkins ‘himself’, a proof that every closed spin 4-manifold has even Euler characteristic - see attachment.


lavinia said:
I am beginning to think that there is no example.

I am not sure if this argument is right but here goes.

Embed the manifold in R^8. The Stiefel-Whitney classes of the normal bundle must cancel the Stiefel-Whitney classes of the tangent bundle.

Since the tangent bundle is orientable and has zero second Stiefel-Whitney class the 4'th Stiefel Whitney class of the normal bundle must cancel the 4'th Stiefel-Whitney class of the tangent bundle and so can not be zero because the Euler characteristic of the manifold is odd.

But the Thom class of the normal bundle is zero because R^8 has no cohomology (with compact supports) except in dimension 8.
 

Attachments

  • spin 4-manifolds.jpg
    spin 4-manifolds.jpg
    47.3 KB · Views: 442
simeonsen_bg said:
You may be right. Let me notice that by the Whitney embedding theorem every smooth n-manifold embeds smoothly in 2n-Euclidean space. So your second condition is superfluous.
Now, as your manifold is orientable with w2=0, it is a spin manifold. And that’s what i found in a book by Stephen Hawkins ‘himself’, a proof that every closed spin 4-manifold has even Euler characteristic - see attachment.

Thanks. I think you can get this result without the Atiyah-Singer Index theorem. The arguments I gave show that the manifold can not be embedded in R^8. But the Whitney Embedding Theorem says that any smooth closed 4 manifold can be embedded in R^8. Therefore the Euler characteristic must be even.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
6K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 38 ·
2
Replies
38
Views
8K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
7K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K