Is there a classification for tensors that are invariant under isometries?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the classification of tensors that are invariant under isometries, particularly focusing on the Riemann tensor and its properties. Participants explore the uniqueness of the Riemann tensor as a second-order derivative of the metric tensor and its implications in the context of general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the only combination of second-order derivatives of the metric that transforms tensorially is the Riemann tensor and its traces.
  • Others affirm this claim, suggesting that it is based on the current understanding of the Riemann tensor's derivation from the metric tensor.
  • A participant inquires about proofs supporting the uniqueness of the Riemann tensor, referencing Weinberg's work as a source.
  • Another participant mentions that the Einstein tensor is a linear combination of traces of the Riemann tensor, contributing to the discussion on tensor classification.
  • Further contributions reference literature indicating that while curvature and its derivatives are classical Riemannian invariants, there is no classification for tensors invariant under isometries, as noted in various sources.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the uniqueness of the Riemann tensor as a second-order derivative of the metric tensor, but there is disagreement regarding the classification of tensors invariant under isometries, with some suggesting that no such classification exists.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of invariance and the specific conditions under which the uniqueness of the Riemann tensor is asserted. The discussion also highlights the complexity of classifying tensors invariant under isometries.

paweld
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Is it true that the only combination of second order derivative of metric which
transforms tensorially is Riemann tensor (and its traces)?
 
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paweld said:
Is it true that the only combination of second order derivative of metric which
transforms tensorially is Riemann tensor (and its traces)?

Yes.

AB
 
Thanks for answer.
Do you know any proof of it.
 
paweld said:
Thanks for answer.
Do you know any proof of it.

Actually this is based on the fact that until today there we have only Riemann tensor created from the combination of the first and second order derivatives of metric tensor and the metric tensor itself. But for an informal proof, see

GRAVITATION AND COSMOLOGY: PRINCIPLES AND APPLICATIONS OF THE GNERAL RELATIVITY by S. Weinberg. John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 1972, pp 133-34.

AB
 
Altabeh said:
Actually this is based on the fact that until today there we have only Riemann tensor created from the combination of the first and second order derivatives of metric tensor and the metric tensor itself.

How about the Einstein tensor?
 
It's lieanr combination of traces of Riemann tensor.
 
paweld said:
It's lieanr combination of traces of Riemann tensor.

Of course!

AB
 
paweld said:
It's lieanr combination of traces of Riemann tensor.

Altabeh said:
Of course!

AB

Thanks guys!
 
I followed Altabeh's suggestion to look at Weinberg, and there he states uniqueness with all the conditions previously mentioned in this thread, plus the requirement that it be linear in second derivatives.

There is an interesting comment in Berger's http://books.google.com/books?id=d_...&resnum=3&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false "A important remark is in order: many people think that the curvature and its derivatives are the only Riemannian invariants. This is true and classical when looking for algebraic invariants which stem from the connection, see page 165 of Schouten 1954 [1109] and the references there. But things are dramatically different if one asks only for tensors which are invariant under isometries (called natural ). Then there is no hope to get any kind of classification, as explained in Epstein 1975 [491]. For more see Munoz & Valdes 1996 [952]."
 

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