Is There a Double Standard in Dating Expectations for Men and Women?

[moose]

- And countless other things men have to do to "mate."

Or you can find someone who isn't using you and actually wants you?

 

[turbo]

The inequalities in one's relationship with a significant other reflect what the partners want and/or are willing to put up with. Any relationship that is so poorly balanced in the give-and-take would not have survived what my wife and I went through early on, including chasing construction jobs all over the region, my working brutal hours (whenever overtime was offered) to try to save enough to build a down-payment on a house someday, the time when the wood-products mill that we both worked at was shut down and were were both unemployed at the same time, the very early losses of her father and my mother, etc.

When I was awarded the lead-operator's job on the world's first on-line sized, coated, and hot-roll-calendered high-speed paper machine, I knew what I was in for. Almost 4 months of 12+ hour days, every single day, without a day off. Most of the guys on that machine had never worked so much overtime or made that much money any time in their lives, and many of their wives spent every nickel they could get their hands on, started running around, and ended up divorcing the guys. The ones with children got to keep the house and the better vehicle, and when the judges looked at the money these guys were making (working 85-90 hours a week, generally), they usually slapped them with the most brutal child-support payments one could image - payments that would be impossible to meet once the paper machine start-up phase was over and we transitioned to 48-60 hours a week. Not only that, the fact that these guys worked rotating shifts guaranteed that they could not get custody of their kids, only visitation rights. Talk about misery! I never doubted that my wife and I would get through that period with our relationship intact, not just because we had experienced worse before, but because we we always rolled with the punches and the bad times drove us closer.

Is a relationship about what X will do to get financial security or Y will do to get sex or what Z will do to have a hot-looking mate (kind of like a living fashion accessory)? Sorry, that is a blueprint for a failed relationship.

 

[rootX]

Did you read hypatia's and my replies here? None of that indicated having men do everything for us. In fact, if my boyfriend tried to do everything for me, he'd probably find the imprint of the bottom of my shoe on delicate parts of his anatomy. That doesn't mean that people can't do nice things for each other.

Later, I realized both the op and the message I responded (also mine post too) are generalizing women behavior in relationships. I think op is assuming that women don't do much in return. I don't know how correct it is but someone also told me that I can ve sex with lots of women if I do all those things on the list ...

 

[rootX]

Good point Dale. Another issue is that a child of 15 is just starting to discover themselves and as they mature, their interests grow and change, their personality "changes/matures". It seems more likely that two people will mature at different rates and their interests will start to change, more often in different directions. The difference in someone at age 15 and age 25 is a lot more noticeable than someone at age 35 and age 45.

There is just a greater risk that two people that meet that young will grow apart due to changes in what they want and like.

I always believed that more I grow, more I would be able to accommodate differences/ other people needs. It is true till now, I am far more tolerant towards the differences than I was before.

I totally agree with Turbo. People shouldn't always consider their own needs in the relationships - there should be lots of understanding, sacrifice, and trust. From my perspective, ideal relationship is giving all of myself to someone else - so, if someone wants me to do this every Tuesday and that every Sunday, I wouldn't have any objection. And, I shouldn't expect anything in return. I am good and safe from unhealthy relationships because I don't do anything on that list and neither try to show off that I am very good/attractive.

 

[Howers]

We're not really being fair to the ladies.
Females:
- Need to look very good.
- Keep weight down.
- Be sensitive and sweet.
- Cook, clean, chores.
- Ward off degrading propositions intimately ( I don't know how else to word it)
- Raise annoying kids.

This is a shallow list, but it is just as ridiculous as saying all men sing and write poetry.

 

[Cyrus]

I always believed that more I grow, more I would be able to accommodate differences/ other people needs. It is true till now, I am far more tolerant towards the differences than I was before.

I totally agree with Turbo. People shouldn't always consider their own needs in the relationships - there should be lots of understanding, sacrifice, and trust. From my perspective, ideal relationship is giving all of myself to someone else - so, if someone wants me to do this every Tuesday and that every Sunday, I wouldn't have any objection. And, I shouldn't expect anything in return. I am good and safe from unhealthy relationships because I don't do anything on that list and neither try to show off that I am very good/attractive.

Wow, I've never had someone openly say the want to be walked all over by their woman. I think you missed the point of the OP's complaint.

Its funny you think you're 'good and safe from unhealthy relationships' if you said what is underlined in the same breath. I don't know how you expect to meet women, or make friends that are guys by NOT trying to show off you are very good/attractive.

 

[GeorginaS]

We're not really being fair to the ladies.
Females:
- Need to look very good.
- Keep weight down.
- Be sensitive and sweet.
- Cook, clean, chores.
- Ward off degrading propositions intimately ( I don't know how else to word it)
- Raise annoying kids.

This is a shallow list, but it is just as ridiculous as saying all men sing and write poetry.

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if women raised non-annoying kids.

 

[Moonbear]

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if women raised non-annoying kids.

Where's the check box on the order form for non-annoying ones? I need to make sure I don't miss it!

 

[rootX]

Wow, I've never had someone openly say the want to be walked all over by their woman. I think you missed the point of the OP's complaint.

I was talking about the ideal one and long term relationships. Anyways, I think we are very good at hating /find faults in others. So, he shouldn't think about divorcing his wife for tiny things. Things can get worse, if he doesn't give in/try to be more tolerant because smaller differences can grow larger over time. Sh*t happens everywhere. It is essential to make some sacrifices in long term relationships.

Its funny you think you're 'good and safe from unhealthy relationships' if you said what is underlined in the same breath. I don't know how you expect to meet women, or make friends that are guys by NOT trying to show off you are very good/attractive.

It's very hard to make friends/get women if I don't show off (maybe 2-4 women over entire life and 1 new friend per 4-5 year). But, all friends/relationships I made that way, are there forever. I have never argued with them nor ever hated them. It's very close to ideal . And, it also prevents people, who are not good for me, from developing personal relationships with me (which makes me safe).

 

[G01]

Speaking on behalf of just myself, as a married man I honestly don't care what a woman brings to the table as long as there's good sex involved. I'm 25. I've been married for 5 years (we've been together for a little over 10yrs). I've been through all the motions of cuddling, arguing, spending time together, and all that garbage couples do. I'm tired of it. I don't care if my wife cooks, cleans, does laundry, or whatever for me since I can do all that myself. At this point in my life I want the sex, nothing more.

Well, I have never been married, but it is my impression that if all you want is sex, then your not looking for marriage and that is probably why you are jaded and bitter. It sounds to me like you got married before you even knew what marriage was about.

Also, as far as I am aware (correct me if I'm wrong married folk), but marriage also isn't about having a woman cook and clean for you. If that is what someone wants they should hire a maid and butler (or if they can only afford one- a "mutler")

I think you need to sit down with yourself and figure out what marriage is. Then you need to decide if you want marriage at this point. It sounds to me like you don't.

 

[Jordan Joab]

Hmm I was unfair in the OP. Women do have to do unnecessary stuff too. I still think when it comes to sex, men do have to jump through more hoops than women.

As far as my marriage goes, I'm actually married to a great woman that wants to be with me because of who I am. My problem is that she's too conservative for me. Feels like my mother


~J

 

[DaveC426913]

Hmmmm, the last guy I dated just said "my name is... google me". After 3 hours of reading about him, I was putty in his hands.

Wow. A man's pick up line is "Google me" and it works. I don't know what he does but it must be interesting enough that I want to meet him.

 

[Evo]

Wow. A man's pick up line is "Google me" and it works. I don't know what he does but it must be interesting enough that I want to meet him.

Yeah, you would, he's that interesting. Many people on this forum have at least heard of the incident that he's at the core of.

 

[Dale]

As far as my marriage goes, I'm actually married to a great woman that wants to be with me because of who I am. My problem is that she's too conservative for me. Feels like my mother

Good to know that Oedipus is still alive and well!

Seriously Jordan, try to look at this from your wife's perspective. How sexy do you think it makes her feel towards you that you think of her like your mother (and therefore for her to probably think of you as a boy)? And don't claim that you never told her how you feel, after 10 years she knows.

Given the dynamic you have expressed here, the list you put in the OP is not a list of romantic ideas but a list of chores: you expect to be given your sexual allowance for doing your sexual chores. How can that do anything other than confuse her? She is probably (hopefully) having trouble reconciling feeling sexy towards you with feeling motherly towards you.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Hmm I was unfair in the OP. Women do have to do unnecessary stuff too. I still think when it comes to sex, men do have to jump through more hoops than women.

As far as my marriage goes, I'm actually married to a great woman that wants to be with me because of who I am. My problem is that she's too conservative for me. Feels like my mother


~J

Have you talked to her about how you feel? I don't mean the "mother" thing, necessarily, but have you told her that you're unhappy because you want more sex, and that you feel like you're having to jump through hoops just to get any at all?

 

[BobG]

Men

- Take her out to dinner.
- Make her feel special.
- Get job/house/car/career/etc.
- Write poems.
- Write/sing/play songs and instruments.
- get special skills.
- Stand out from the crowd.
- Financial security.
- And countless other things men have to do to "mate."

In the end, sex not guaranteed.

Women

"I'm in the mood tonight."

Sex guaranteed.


Why doesn't this happen to me?

http://www.geocities.com/area51/shadowlands/6583/et051.html

So...if I tell her I'm an alien, she'll do me? Why didn't anyone tell me this before?!??!

Telling her you're an alien only satisfies the "Stand out from the crowd" part. You still have to take her out to dinner, make her feel special, and write poems, and play an instrument.

Admittedly, the "alien culture" thing gives you a little bit of a pass in that it helps to explain away the fact that your poems and songs are so horridly bad. It also gives you a pass on owning a house and car or having a job since you haven't been on Earth long enough to acquire those sorts of things.

The "special skills" part gets a lot more challenging if you claim to be an alien. You're expected to do something really spectacular, like raise animals from the dead. Ressurecting a "dead" housefly sometimes works. If you freeze a live housefly, you can usually restore it to conciousness just by thawing it out.

 

[LightbulbSun]

Blah, I hate all of this contrived ********. Just be yourself, and if you oppose doing something then stand pat. For christ sake, do we lose all of our individuality when we're in a relationship? Are we this sterile that we have to formulate on how to get sex?

 

[rewebster]

Hmmmm, the last guy I dated just said "my name is... google me". After 3 hours of reading about him, I was putty in his hands.

ok guys---there's your challenge


(rules quite a few of "us" out probably )

 

[rewebster]

The nice 'thing' about it all, to me, is that if a man or woman is looking for 'this' or 'that' , or 'this AND that', or whatever, there one of the opposite sex to match the same attitude. From men that want just big boobs, there's women out there that present 'them' as their main and almost only attribute(s). Women who wants a man with a big (XXXXXX), we men will keep presenting ourselves til the woman says, "OMG, it's him.. he's the one with the BIG (XXXXXX)---I CAN'T ask for MORE!"


I really find this one woman funny--she wanted a long haired tall man with native American looks---she told me she had found three 'but' they all drank too much she found out after some time with each.

 

[Moonbear]

Yeah, you would, he's that interesting. Many people on this forum have at least heard of the incident that he's at the core of.

Someone at the core of an "incident?" Sounds like a perfect match for Evo!

 

[rewebster]

Someone at the core of an "incident?" Sounds like a perfect match for Evo!

was there a thread about all of this? (before my time?)

 

[Moonbear]

was there a thread about all of this? (before my time?)

I don't think so. I don't know who she's talking about either.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I don't think so. I don't know who she's talking about either.

I think that was when Evo met the Unibomber.

 

[DaveC426913]

I assumed she was talking about that speaker guy she had a crush on last year.

 

[rewebster]

I assumed she was talking about that speaker guy she had a crush on last year.

do you mean D2 ?-----hmmm, that doesn't match up...maybe she didn't talk about it for some reason or another in any of the threads... (one of those (very) <secret> things----<shhhhhhhhhhhhh...>)

 

[whitay]

I don't understand the OP. If that's what women want/expect from you then I would expect the equivalent in return and if you are no expecting nothing in return then you are simply being played by these women. Your hindsight should tell you that this is no fun and isn't worth your time.

The inequality between men and women is unfortunately apparent every where. I remember in high school sports classes, girls only had to do so much compared to the boys to achieve the same marks. I never seen the point in that and was essentially grounded in the fundamentals of us students that women where physically weaker than men which is in some instances not true. I cannot remember if there was more in other classes or at an earlier stage however I feel that it is possible that inequality is embedded as young children and carries through on into adulthood.

I am not one to speak of relationships as I have never had a girlfriend myself. However what I will say is that at no point would I embark in a relationship with someone when there was nothing I could learn from her (at my age this doesn't seem to be quite the attribute just yet but is in the older women I meet) and that what it is that I choose to do wasn't a concern and vice versa and that expectations weren't present because of the possible swaying from expectations to demands. Also I see financial burdens to be a simple unhealthy hazard, especially when it is only the one partner with the issue and relies on the other.

I don't understand why the women and men are saying that they need to be able to cook, clean, iron, wash and what not. These are simple essentials in daily life and although they consume a good proportion of time which I would rather spend reading or doing some else, I have no choice. I would say that they are no criteria but a simple fundamental such as communication.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't understand why the women and men are saying that they need to be able to cook, clean, iron, wash and what not. These are simple essentials in daily life and although they consume a good proportion of time which I would rather spend reading or doing some else, I have no choice.

Attending to one's regular chores is a sign of maturity. Or, more accurately, not attending to one's chores is a sign of immaturity or something else. If a potential mate cannot or does not handle the basics, it should set off alarm bells and it warrants scrutiny.

As you say, a fundamental.

 

[Redbelly98]

Another inequality: for the most part, men don't worry if a woman they're interested in just might turn out to be a stalker or other weirdo.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Another inequality: for the most part, men don't worry if a woman they're interested in just might turn out to be a stalker or other weirdo.

Maybe they should..

 

[rewebster]

Another inequality: for the most part, men don't worry if a woman they're interested in just might turn out to be a stalker or other weirdo.

yeah well--I had one and it wasn't fun---bad to the point of her calling me at work so much that the boss called me to the office, her waiting at my car and my apartment---bad, just bad