Is There a Double Standard in Dating Expectations for Men and Women?

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The discussion highlights the perceived imbalance in relationship expectations between men and women, with men feeling pressured to perform various romantic gestures and achieve financial stability to attract partners, yet often finding that these efforts do not guarantee sexual intimacy. Women, on the other hand, are described as having more straightforward desires, leading to frustration among men who feel their efforts are unreciprocated. Some participants argue that traditional dating norms are outdated and suggest that both genders should contribute equally to relationships. The conversation also touches on the emotional toll of these expectations, with some expressing jadedness about the dating landscape. Ultimately, the thread reflects a complex interplay of gender roles and relationship dynamics in modern dating.
  • #101
Cyrus said:
Thats because you don't know the situational context, and the way I say these things. Do you really think I am in a girls face saying, "IM NOT GOING TO CALL YOU"...come on guys, let's be reasonable here.

It seems you all have never heard of playing hard to get?

I know its hard to believe, but I know what I am doing. Also, keep in mind the area were talking about. I don't know how the people are in west virginia, or any other part of the country you're from. But here in washington dc, if you try to talk and act nice to a girl at a bar scene, you're going to get blown away so fast you won't know what hit you. OR, she'll just use you for some free drinks and then toss you away. I see it happen alllllllll the time. What may seem 'extreme' to you, is normal to me, and for good reason.

All of this depends on the person I am talking to at the time. You have to gauge how much you can get away with, how 'nice' you have to be to her. Some girls you just can't be nice to. Others you can be nice to. It depends on how they interact with you during the conversation, body language, the subject of the conversation.

For example, I'll even say, 'this conversation is going no where, talk about something else that isn't so boring'...they laugh and say yeah, you're right and we talk about something else. I've never had anyone get bent out of shape. I think you guys read statements I make above as, 'HEY YOU, CHANGE THIS GOD DAMN TOPIC NOW', when that's not at all how it sounds when I say it to you in person.

Haha, I just started laughing about this.

I've been out the girl would pay for me. Or if I'm not drinking, they will offer to get drinks for me.

Yeah, I've said rude things to girls and dirty things. It all depends on the conversation. I once told a girl right up front she's a *****. She still sends me messages to hang out and have fun. :P (She has a boyfriend.)
 
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  • #102
Cyrus said:
No, if you were a girl and met someone open honest and upfront you'd be bored out of your mind with that guy in five minutes (I'm talking about someone you just met).

That is about the stupidest remark I've seen so far. Sorry, no other way to put that. How about when you actually have a girlfriend you tell us how it goes? Otherwise, you know a lot about how NOT to develop a relationship. If someone is bored with you in 5 minutes, you're probably a horribly boring person, it has nothing to do with being open, honest or upfront. Are your conversational skills truly that limited that you have to fabricate stories in order to keep someone's attention?

How about having some respect for the women who are telling you that you have it quite wrong about what women want? Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.
 
  • #103
Moonbear said:
That is about the stupidest remark I've seen so far. Sorry, no other way to put that. How about when you actually have a girlfriend you tell us how it goes? Otherwise, you know a lot about how NOT to develop a relationship. If someone is bored with you in 5 minutes, you're probably a horribly boring person, it has nothing to do with being open, honest or upfront. Are your conversational skills truly that limited that you have to fabricate stories in order to keep someone's attention?

How about having some respect for the women who are telling you that you have it quite wrong about what women want? Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.

Yeah, that's I meant. I'm honest and upfront with anything. (I mentionned this earlier.)

I've got atleast one number everytime I've gone out in the past like 6 weeks. I highly doubt I'm coming off as boring and dull. (Most girls I meet and get along with are those I meet outside the bar taking air or in restaurants and random places.) I just have fun at bars.
 
  • #104
Cyrus said:
No, if you were a girl and met someone open honest and upfront you'd be bored out of your mind with that guy in five minutes (I'm talking about someone you just met).
Honesty is good, but you can't be open about everything in your life. Honesty and openness are different things which is why they're spelled differently. If it's not going to raise interest level why bring it up. Watch Cary Grant movies and copy his banter.
 
  • #105
Whew, reading all this makes me sooooo glad I'm married and don't have to date anymore...what a bunch of head games!
 
  • #106
Moonbear said:
That is about the stupidest remark I've seen so far. Sorry, no other way to put that. How about when you actually have a girlfriend you tell us how it goes? Otherwise, you know a lot about how NOT to develop a relationship. If someone is bored with you in 5 minutes, you're probably a horribly boring person, it has nothing to do with being open, honest or upfront. Are your conversational skills truly that limited that you have to fabricate stories in order to keep someone's attention?

How about having some respect for the women who are telling you that you have it quite wrong about what women want? Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.


I think what I said was not very clear. What I meant was, when you initially talk to someone you just met. If you're trying to chat up someone and you are open and honest then you will come off as being very boring. I should have made this more clear, sorry. In other words, don't walk up to someone and say: "Hi my name is x..." and then proceed to talk about open, honest, boring stuff.

I already mentioned that I don't lie about myself when I talk to someone, on any issue. I don't know what women are telling me I have it wrong about what women want though?
 
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  • #107
The_Professional said:
Honesty is good, but you can't be open about everything in your life. Honesty and openness are different things which is why they're spelled differently. If it's not going to raise interest level why bring it up. Watch Cary Grant movies and copy his banter.

That's a good observation.
 
  • #108
Moonbear said:
Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.

That's the funniest thing I've read in this entire thread! (Most) Women (and men too) don't have a clue what they want in a partner. They think they want someone nice, kind, and sensitive, but then fall for a jerk (I'm generalizing and exaggerating a little here).

If you truly believe this, I would recommend an experiment for you.

1. Find 10 women (unmarried, single, and looking for a relationship).
2. Ask them what they look for in a man.
3. Wait and see who their next boyfriend is.
4. Compare the results of 2 and 3.

I think you'll be surprised by the differences between what women think they want, and what they actually choose when the time comes.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I agree with Cyrus on almost everything he says, and it's more or less the same approach I have when dating.
 
  • #109
I'd have to say Moonbear, myself, and several other women that I've gotten to know here mean what they say and act according to what they say.

I loathe "bad boy" types and will NOT date one. I will not tolerate a man being a jerk to me. My history of dumping men without notice if they display any discourteous traits speaks for itself. My two girls also will not tolerate such treatment and both look for really "nice" guys to date. My oldest is currently in a relationship with one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, the youngest is "available". But she has always dated super nice boys.

Anyone that allows themselves to be mistreated or that mistreats others have self esteem issues.

I wouldn't call what Cyrus does "mistreating" anyone. I do find it curious that he thinks someone honestly talking about themselves would be boring. Yes, there are boring people. I've been called boring. I've been called fascinating. I guess the ones that thought I was fascinating were boring. :-p

I have to admit that while I would be put off by someone bragging about themselves, if I found out that the man was feeding me a line of BS about himself for whatever reason, I would cut him off.
 
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  • #110
It seems a lot of the differences in 'observations' among posters seems to stem from the initial point of 'what, where, why'-----are you looking for a XXXX, going out to the XXXX, to get XXX?

if you're going to the bars to get laid, that's one LCD (lowest common denominator);

and, are you looking in a common stomping ground for a mate (life partner)?

if you're personally (personality wise, mature enough) not ready for a 'good' mate, chances are, you won't find one.

If you're looking for something specific, (a rich mate, a smart mate, an athletic mate, etc.), it may be better to look at specific 'meeting grounds' for that type. If you have one 'more major qualifying factor' , say, for example, some women want only men that are very successful and rich, there's head games that go along with what made them that way. If a guy is looking for a woman is 'fun', her definition of 'fun' will still be different than yours.

Some people seem to be still playing around;

and, some seem to know, at least, from their own maturity level, what they want.
 
  • #111
Evo said:
I'd have to say Moonbear, myself, and several other women that I've gotten to know here mean what they say and act according to what they say.

I loathe "bad boy" types and will NOT date one. I will not tolerate a man being a jerk to me. My history of dumping men without notice if they display any discourteous traits speaks for itself. My two girls also will not tolerate such treatment and both look for really "nice" guys to date. My oldest is currently in a relationship with one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, the youngest is "available". But she has always dated super nice boys.

Anyone that allows themselves to be mistreated or that mistreats others have self esteem issues.

I wouldn't call what Cyrus does "mistreating" anyone. I do find it curious that he thinks someone honestly talking about themselves would be boring. Yes, there are boring people. I've been called boring. I've been called fascinating. I guess the ones that thought I was fascinating were boring. :-p

I have to admit that while I would be put off by someone bragging about themselves, if I found out that the man was feeding me a line of BS about himself for whatever reason, I would cut him off.

Well, the thing is when I'm talking to someone in a bar, I don't care about the answers to the quesitons I ask. I am only ask the questions to be playful, tease them, and poke fun at them. If I were to honestly walk up to someone and say hi, bla ba bla tell me about yourself. Bla bla bla, it would be so boring. And if someone I am talking to does this (male or female), I'll let them know they are boring me. I didnt go to a bar to hear your lifes story. I just want to have fun talking and interacting with people.

My friend and I have had that 'nice guy' walk up to use and start talking, and talking, and talking. Hey guys. What bar did you go to? Were there a lot of girls there? What bars do you like going to? My friend and I are looking at each other like, who the hell is this guy. Why won't he shut up and get lost? I mean, he's being honest and open in his communication. But no one wants to hear it.

(I think the problem moonbear, is that you are taking what I am saying for just meeting and interacting with people socially, and extracting it to a serious relationship. Which is NOT what I am saying at all).
 
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  • #112
Cyrus said:
Well, the thing is when I'm talking to someone in a bar, I don't care about the answers to the quesitons I ask. Im only ask the questions to be playful, tease them, and poke fun at them. If I were to honestly walk up to someone and say hi, bla ba bla tell me about yourself. Bla bla bla, it would be so boring. And if someone I am talking to does this (male or female), I'll let them know they are boring me. I didnt go to a bar to hear your lifes story. I just want to have fun talking and interacting with people.

My friend and I have had that 'nice guy' walk up to use and start talking, and talking, and talking. Hey guys. What bar did you go to? Were there a lot of girls there? What bars do you like going to? My friend and I are looking at each other like, who the hell is this guy. Why won't he shut up and get lost? I mean, he's being honest and open in his communication. But no one wants to hear it.

(I think the problem moonbear, is that you are taking what I am saying for just meeting and interacting with people socially, and extracting it to a serious relationship. Which is NOT what I am saying at all).

so, you're looking for people that poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are from their viewpoint?
 
  • #113
rewebster said:
so, you're looking for people that poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are from their viewpoint?

What? ......I honestly think you have not had a bar conversation before, or you'd understand what I'm talking about. Have you not noticed the things Jason says about his conversations are nearly the same as what I say? Its because he's been in bars and know's what people talk about in them. Its just stupid chit chat so people can relax, unwind and have some fun.
 
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  • #114
I've been to bars----don't you understand the question?---I can re-phrase if I have to
 
  • #115
rewebster said:
I've been to bars----don't you understand the question?---I can re-phrase if I have to

Your question makes no sense. I can't answer something that does not make sense.
 
  • #116
Cyrus said:
Your question makes no sense. I can't answer something that does not make sense.

When you go to the bars, do you find those people interesting that poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are?
 
  • #117
rewebster said:
When you go to the bars, do you find those people interesting that poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are?

Again, your question is fundamentally wrong. I don't know why you are using the phrase 'poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are'. You're making it sound as if were sitting there trying to insult each other or something, which isn't the case. The way you pose the question just isnt right.

So again, I can't answer your question.

Perhaps I should give you an example to make things clearer. One girl was giving me a hard time because I told her I am from DC. But she said "no your not, you live in maryland, and you go to school in maryland. Sounds like your from maryland to me." I busted her chops earlier, and now she was busting mine. MUCH more fun talking to her than another girl that would have been, 'oh you live in maryland, I see ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz'.
 
  • #118
Ah, to be young and in a bar. :biggrin:

Things have changed from when I went to bars. I met my first husband in a bar. I asked him where he lived and it wasn't too far from me. I asked him where he worked and he said a contractor at NASA, he was into photogrpahy, the conversation just kept flowing... We talked all night, and before we left he asked me if I'd like to go out to dinner the following weekend. I said I'd love to and we did.
 
  • #119
Cyrus said:
Again, your question is fundamentally wrong. I don't know why you are using the phrase 'poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are'. You're making it sound as if were sitting there trying to insult each other or something, which isn't the case. The way you pose the question just isnt right.

So again, I can't answer your question.
Perhaps I should give you an example to make things clearer. One girl was giving me a hard time because I told her I am from DC. But she said "no your not, you live in maryland, and you go to school in maryland. Sounds like your from maryland to me." I busted her chops earlier, and now she was busting mine. MUCH more fun talking to her than another girl that would have been, 'oh you live in maryland, I see ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz'.

I can't understand that you don't understand the question--I copied it almost word for word from your post:

Cyrus said:
Well, the thing is when I'm talking to someone in a bar, I don't care about the answers to the quesitons I ask. I am only ask the questions to be playful, tease them, and poke fun at them.
 
  • #120
rewebster said:
I can't understand that you don't understand the question--I copied it almost word for word from your post:

Because you added 'for who you are', and I don't tease people 'for who they are'. That little 'for who they are' makes a HUGE difference. So, again I still can't answer your question the way its worded.
 
  • #121
don't worry---I was just teasing you and poking fun at you ----you know, that empathy thing
 
  • #122
Now you have to ask for his phone number.
 
  • #123
WarPhalange said:
Now you have to ask for his phone number.

you mean, I'll tell him that I'm NOT giving him my number and I'm NOT calling him
 
  • #124
rewebster said:
don't worry---I was just teasing you and poking fun at you ----you know, that empathy thing

I hope you're not this bitter in real life over trivial things, because wow...
 
  • #125
I'm having a blast reading this thread! It's very entertaining and I've learned a few things here and there.

Reading all this makes me wish I was single again and having fun out there.:-p
 
  • #126
Jordan Joab said:
I'm having a blast reading this thread! It's very entertaining and I've learned a few things here and there.

Reading all this makes me wish I was single again and having fun out there.:-p

You can look at what's on the menu, you just can't order anything. :-p
 
  • #127
Cyrus said:
You can look at what's on the menu, you just can't order anything. :-p

At some point I'll be ordering again. I'm too damn young not to live life!:biggrin:
 
  • #128
Cyrus said:
I hope you're not this bitter in real life over trivial things, because wow...

thanks, I think... bitter --no----and I hope you have more empathy in 'the real life' than what you post, too.
 
  • #129
Jordan Joab said:
At some point I'll be ordering again. I'm too damn young not to live life!:biggrin:

You can always do things with your wife still. There are tons of stuff you can do together and try out. Take classes together, (Cooking, dancing, I donno), find some activity to try. It will be fun, just don't do something that's mundane. If you two are going to try something new, make it count. Something outside both of your comfort zones.
 
  • #130
rewebster said:
thanks, I think... bitter --no----and I hope you have more empathy in 'the real life' than what you post, too.

Empathy in what way?

Side: I don't know why you're thanking me. I wasnt giving you a compliment, that was pretty obvious. At least I thought so...

*Note, I'm being genuine here. I'm not trying to piss you off.
 
  • #131
Jordan Joab said:
I'm having a blast reading this thread! It's very entertaining and I've learned a few things here and there.

Reading all this makes me wish I was single again and having fun out there.:-p
You really need to get a divorce, you are not ready to be in a commited relationship. It's not fair to your wife. Cut her loose so she can find someone decent that really cares about her, not just for short term sex.
 
  • #132
Cyrus said:
Empathy in what way?

Side: I don't know why you're thanking me. I wasnt giving you a compliment, that was pretty obvious. At least I thought so...
*Note, I'm being genuine here. I'm not trying to piss you off.

hmmmm--what were you trying to do, then?
 
  • #133
Cyrus said:
You can always do things with your wife still. There are tons of stuff you can do together and try out. Take classes together, (Cooking, dancing, I donno), find some activity to try. It will be fun, just don't do something that's mundane. If you two are going to try something new, make it count. Something outside both of your comfort zones.

I'll be completely honest, even though I'm going to try spicing things up, I'm tired of the same woman:frown:

Eating peanut butter & jelly everyday gets old!
 
  • #134
Jordan Joab said:
I'll be completely honest, even though I'm going to try spicing things up, I'm tired of the same woman:frown:

Eating peanut butter & jelly everyday gets old!

have you tried the Elvis variety of it?
 
  • #135
rewebster said:
have you tried the Elvis variety of it?

Dear Lord, I don't know what that is! Explain, please.
 
  • #138
Jordan Joab said:
That's a heart attack in a bun.

(have you told that to your wife lately)

------------
on the tube right now:

Goldeneye is on (Bond)

"I like a woman who enjoys pulling rank"
 
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  • #139
Jordan Joab said:
I'll be completely honest, even though I'm going to try spicing things up, I'm tired of the same woman:frown:

Eating peanut butter & jelly everyday gets old!

Then just get a divorce already. For all you know, she probably thinks the same thing. One of you just needs to say it. It really just sounds like you married too young, before you really knew what you wanted or who you wanted it with, and now regret it. It doesn't mean either of you are bad people, just that you are really incompatible with one another. You need to find someone a little spicier, and she needs to find someone blander, then you can both be happy.
 
  • #140
rewebster said:
hmmmm--what were you trying to do, then?

Show you that posting childish remarks are not appreciated. I guess that wasnt obvious to you either.
 
  • #141
Moonbear said:
Then just get a divorce already. For all you know, she probably thinks the same thing. One of you just needs to say it. It really just sounds like you married too young, before you really knew what you wanted or who you wanted it with, and now regret it. It doesn't mean either of you are bad people, just that you are really incompatible with one another. You need to find someone a little spicier, and she needs to find someone blander, then you can both be happy.

I agree. Thats why I can't even begin to imagine the people who are married even as young as 25, or 26!
 
  • #142
Cyrus said:
Show you that posting childish remarks are not appreciated. I guess that wasnt obvious to you either.

actually, I caught it all---at least I didn't call anyone childish and bitter
 
  • #143
Moonbear said:
Then just get a divorce already. For all you know, she probably thinks the same thing. One of you just needs to say it. It really just sounds like you married too young, before you really knew what you wanted or who you wanted it with, and now regret it. It doesn't mean either of you are bad people, just that you are really incompatible with one another. You need to find someone a little spicier, and she needs to find someone blander, then you can both be happy.

I know. There's just too much emotionally invested. Plus, I'm afraid of that change since we've been together as a couple since high school. Eventually I'll figure it out. She's smart, I know she already knows what's going on.
 
  • #144
Don't have the balls huh??

You seem like you've already figured it out from previous posts.
 
  • #145
Jordan Joab said:
I know. There's just too much emotionally invested. Plus, I'm afraid of that change since we've been together as a couple since high school.
Taking even longer to get out isn't going to help that any. Besides, really, what emotional investment? Are you waiting until you completely hate each other instead of getting out while it's still amicable? If you think you still have something worth saving, try marriage counseling and see if getting the problems out in the open can solve them. Either way, don't wait until you completely resent one another to make some sort of move. You have to talk about it to fix it, either way it goes.

I could not even begin to imagine still being with my high school boyfriend. We still keep in touch on and off, but egad, life would be boring with him! He likes to play everything safe, by the book, never just wing it, never just do something spontaneous, certainly not pick and move from state to state every few years. The things that attract people in high school just aren't the things that keep you together years later. It's REALLY rare for high school sweethearts to end up in a lasting marriage.
 
  • #146
good that I ve decided not to think about marriage until I reach 40/50 :smile:
 
  • #147
whitay said:
Don't have the balls huh??

You seem like you've already figured it out from previous posts.

I don't think you're in any place to tell another guy he doesn't have the balls to tell his wife he wants to leave her. Thats not an easy thing to say to someone and should be done with care.
 
  • #148
Cyrus said:
I don't think you're in any place to tell another guy he doesn't have the balls to tell his wife he wants to leave her. Thats not an easy thing to say to someone and should be done with care.

I concur - completely.
 
  • #149
Cyrus said:
I don't think you're in any place to tell another guy he doesn't have the balls to tell his wife he wants to leave her. Thats not an easy thing to say to someone and should be done with care.

You're absolutely right. I am not in any place to tell anyone they don't have balls.

But if you care, do you refer to someone as a sandwich?
 
  • #150
whitay said:
You're absolutely right. I am not in any place to tell anyone they don't have balls.

But if you care, do you refer to someone as a sandwich?

I've never heard that before. What does it mean to call someone a sandwich?
 

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