Is There a Double Standard in Dating Expectations for Men and Women?

[whitay]

Why are you playing games with these girls?

If I was a girl, I'd appreciate someone open, honest and upfront.

 

[Jordan Joab]

Why are you playing games with these girls?

If I was a girl, I'd appreciate someone open, honest and upfront.

He is right in some aspects. You can't be nice to certain women, you don't want to tell that chick your income, you can't hold the door for this girl, etc. I see relationships as "hit or miss."

What irks me is the double standard on honesty/openness many women have. You need to tell them where you are but if you ask them where they are going you are "not letting her breathe." My personal favorite is when you go out to buy junk food and the wife/girlfriend tells you she wants "whatever" well you bring "whatever" and they get mad at you. How about specifying what you want? I'm not a damn psychic, I don't know what your brain wants to eat at all times!

This is one of the many reasons if I get divorced I will never marry again. I'll probably try to knock out a lawyer/doctor type chick to have at least 1 kid but other than marriage only needs to be experienced once.


~J

 

[whitay]

Moonbear and Evo, do either of you do any of these things that the others have mentioned?

In asking this I am not saying that I don't believe there are such females but what I do know is that I have many friends who arn't like this, in the slightest. And on the other hand I have quite a few friends are the epitome of what you have said. These behaviors are prevalent due to simple day to day interactions.

Knocking her out probably isn't the best idea (I think it's a crime, in most countries) but I know what you wanted to say. If this is what you expect then I am sure this is how it will be for you. If that is what you want?

 

[Cyrus]

Why are you playing games with these girls?

If I was a girl, I'd appreciate someone open, honest and upfront.

No, if you were a girl and met someone open honest and upfront you'd be bored out of your mind with that guy in five minutes (I'm talking about someone you just met).

 

[Jordan Joab]

Moonbear and Evo, do either of you do any of these things that the others have mentioned?

In asking this I am not saying that I don't believe there are such females but what I do know is that I have many friends who arn't like this, in the slightest. And on the other hand I have quite a few friends are the epitome of what you have said. These behaviors are prevalent due to simple day to day interactions.

Knocking her out probably isn't the best idea (I think it's a crime, in most countries) but I know what you wanted to say. If this is what you expect then I am sure this is how it will be for you. If that is what you want?

My comment came out wrong. What I meant to say was, that I would try to find a doctor/lawyer interested in having a child. I simply wouldn't marry the woman. I would live with her but I wouldn't marry her.


~J

 

[Jordan Joab]

Moonbear and Evo, do either of you do any of these things that the others have mentioned?

In asking this I am not saying that I don't believe there are such females but what I do know is that I have many friends who arn't like this, in the slightest. And on the other hand I have quite a few friends are the epitome of what you have said. These behaviors are prevalent due to simple day to day interactions.

Knocking her out probably isn't the best idea (I think it's a crime, in most countries) but I know what you wanted to say. If this is what you expect then I am sure this is how it will be for you. If that is what you want?

My comment came out wrong. What I meant to say was, that I would try to find a doctor/lawyer interested in having a child. I simply wouldn't marry the woman. I would live with her but I wouldn't marry her.

and yes, it is what I would want. I'm not giving my freedom away, ever.

~J

 

[whitay]

My comment came out wrong. What I meant to say was, that I would try to find a doctor/lawyer interested in having a child. I simply wouldn't marry the woman. I would live with her but I wouldn't marry her.

and yes, it is what I would want. I'm not giving my freedom away, ever.

~J

Ahh I see what you mean. I personally don't believe in marriage either but for other reasons. Simply what does my love for another have to do with God, Jesus and all other innards of religion? And what gives religion the right to sanction marriage over a the workings of a defacto relationship. I don't think the intention of marriage is to constrain but I do think people feel more constrained and obligated when married. But what would I know.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Only if you're into dating insecure psychos. If they're only doing things to cling and keep you from wandering off, do both of you a favor and leave. Relationships formed on a premise of threats of leaving aren't healthy relationships, they're a form of psychological manipulation/abuse, and it only works on the insecure.

Women must be made different where you come from. Have you seriously never noticed that just about every other woman you meet is [or has been] in a relationship where their partner treated them like crap or were indifferent towards them yet they stayed in the relationship anyway and did things for him all the time? And most men do this on a smaller scale so that you would likely not realize it at first. In various small ways they implant the suggestion in their partners head that they better be good or he just might not be around any more.

First off, good that she's an ex, because by that behavior she should be an ex. Second, I bolded a key sentence there. It's not that she was no longer motivated to do anything for you, it's that she never did anything in the first place, and was just finding excuses for it.

She did things. It was just rare and mostly lame. At least twice that I knew of she decided to randomly buy something for me as a gift then afterwards wondered why she bought it since it was not anything I would like and returned it. Anyway.. all of this had an underlying cause. She just wasn't interested but kept lying to herself and believing that she was.


And I'm not sure if you missed it or just were not responding to me but I don't keep score. But like I said its really hard to not notice when someone is not reciprocating in a manner that would suggest they are actually interested in you and care about you.

 

[Jordan Joab]

Ahh I see what you mean. I personally don't believe in marriage either but for other reasons. Simply what does my love for another have to do with God, Jesus and all other innards of religion? And what gives religion the right to sanction marriage over a the workings of a defacto relationship. I don't think the intention of marriage is to constrain but I do think people feel more constrained and obligated when married. But what would I know.

Whatever the purpose of marriage, I don't think it's necessary anymore. Now, I'm still married and I'll try my hardest to make it work but if it fails, then that is it.

Actually, I think marriage is for old people. They do need companionship. Young people, however, should stay away from it. Live life, get as many women as you can in bed (wear your hard hat), go out, party, get drunk, etc. etc.

I don't even want to think the number of women I've passed up just because I was married.


~J

 

[Moonbear]

I personally don't believe in marriage either but for other reasons. Simply what does my love for another have to do with God, Jesus and all other innards of religion? And what gives religion the right to sanction marriage over a the workings of a defacto relationship.

You don't have to get married in a church or as part of a religious ceremony. You can go to a courthouse and get married by a justice of the peace in a civil ceremony. Then it's purely for legal purposes (taxation, inheritance, medical decision-making in the event of incapacitation of one partner).

Women must be made different where you come from. Have you seriously never noticed that just about every other woman you meet is [or has been] in a relationship where their partner treated them like crap or were indifferent towards them yet they stayed in the relationship anyway and did things for him all the time? And most men do this on a smaller scale so that you would likely not realize it at first. In various small ways they implant the suggestion in their partners head that they better be good or he just might not be around any more.

I really don't see it. Or rather it's rare, and when it happens, we all tell her to just dump the jerk, which usually happens soon enough. Do men really tell each other this is the way to get a woman? No wonder women spend so much time complaining about all the jerks they meet. Of course, you reap what you sow. If you treat women like crap, they'll treat you like crap too. That's not a good way to develop a decent relationship.

She did things. It was just rare and mostly lame. At least twice that I knew of she decided to randomly buy something for me as a gift then afterwards wondered why she bought it since it was not anything I would like and returned it. Anyway.. all of this had an underlying cause. She just wasn't interested but kept lying to herself and believing that she was.

Sounds more like you were the one to fall into the trap of hanging on in spite of being treated like crap.

And I'm not sure if you missed it or just were not responding to me but I don't keep score. But like I said its really hard to not notice when someone is not reciprocating in a manner that would suggest they are actually interested in you and care about you.

Yeah, I was responding to the other posts above yours with those comments. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[JasonRox]

Thats because you don't know the situational context, and the way I say these things. Do you really think I am in a girls face saying, "IM NOT GOING TO CALL YOU"...come on guys, let's be reasonable here.

It seems you all have never heard of playing hard to get?

I know its hard to believe, but I know what I am doing. Also, keep in mind the area were talking about. I don't know how the people are in west virginia, or any other part of the country you're from. But here in washington dc, if you try to talk and act nice to a girl at a bar scene, you're going to get blown away so fast you won't know what hit you. OR, she'll just use you for some free drinks and then toss you away. I see it happen alllllllll the time. What may seem 'extreme' to you, is normal to me, and for good reason.

All of this depends on the person I am talking to at the time. You have to gauge how much you can get away with, how 'nice' you have to be to her. Some girls you just can't be nice to. Others you can be nice to. It depends on how they interact with you during the conversation, body language, the subject of the conversation.

For example, I'll even say, 'this conversation is going no where, talk about something else that isn't so boring'...they laugh and say yeah, you're right and we talk about something else. I've never had anyone get bent out of shape. I think you guys read statements I make above as, 'HEY YOU, CHANGE THIS GOD DAMN TOPIC NOW', when that's not at all how it sounds when I say it to you in person.

Haha, I just started laughing about this.

I've been out the girl would pay for me. Or if I'm not drinking, they will offer to get drinks for me.

Yeah, I've said rude things to girls and dirty things. It all depends on the conversation. I once told a girl right up front she's a *****. She still sends me messages to hang out and have fun. :P (She has a boyfriend.)

 

[Moonbear]

No, if you were a girl and met someone open honest and upfront you'd be bored out of your mind with that guy in five minutes (I'm talking about someone you just met).

That is about the stupidest remark I've seen so far. Sorry, no other way to put that. How about when you actually have a girlfriend you tell us how it goes? Otherwise, you know a lot about how NOT to develop a relationship. If someone is bored with you in 5 minutes, you're probably a horribly boring person, it has nothing to do with being open, honest or upfront. Are your conversational skills truly that limited that you have to fabricate stories in order to keep someone's attention?

How about having some respect for the women who are telling you that you have it quite wrong about what women want? Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.

 

[JasonRox]

That is about the stupidest remark I've seen so far. Sorry, no other way to put that. How about when you actually have a girlfriend you tell us how it goes? Otherwise, you know a lot about how NOT to develop a relationship. If someone is bored with you in 5 minutes, you're probably a horribly boring person, it has nothing to do with being open, honest or upfront. Are your conversational skills truly that limited that you have to fabricate stories in order to keep someone's attention?

How about having some respect for the women who are telling you that you have it quite wrong about what women want? Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.

Yeah, that's I meant. I'm honest and upfront with anything. (I mentionned this earlier.)

I've got atleast one number everytime I've gone out in the past like 6 weeks. I highly doubt I'm coming off as boring and dull. (Most girls I meet and get along with are those I meet outside the bar taking air or in restaurants and random places.) I just have fun at bars.

 

[The_Professional]

No, if you were a girl and met someone open honest and upfront you'd be bored out of your mind with that guy in five minutes (I'm talking about someone you just met).

Honesty is good, but you can't be open about everything in your life. Honesty and openness are different things which is why they're spelled differently. If it's not going to raise interest level why bring it up. Watch Cary Grant movies and copy his banter.

 

[lisab]

Whew, reading all this makes me sooooo glad I'm married and don't have to date anymore...what a bunch of head games!

 

[Cyrus]

That is about the stupidest remark I've seen so far. Sorry, no other way to put that. How about when you actually have a girlfriend you tell us how it goes? Otherwise, you know a lot about how NOT to develop a relationship. If someone is bored with you in 5 minutes, you're probably a horribly boring person, it has nothing to do with being open, honest or upfront. Are your conversational skills truly that limited that you have to fabricate stories in order to keep someone's attention?

How about having some respect for the women who are telling you that you have it quite wrong about what women want? Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.

I think what I said was not very clear. What I meant was, when you initially talk to someone you just met. If you're trying to chat up someone and you are open and honest then you will come off as being very boring. I should have made this more clear, sorry. In other words, don't walk up to someone and say: "Hi my name is x..." and then proceed to talk about open, honest, boring stuff.

I already mentioned that I don't lie about myself when I talk to someone, on any issue. I don't know what women are telling me I have it wrong about what women want though?

 

[Cyrus]

Honesty is good, but you can't be open about everything in your life. Honesty and openness are different things which is why they're spelled differently. If it's not going to raise interest level why bring it up. Watch Cary Grant movies and copy his banter.

That's a good observation.

 

[NeoDevin]

Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.

That's the funniest thing I've read in this entire thread! (Most) Women (and men too) don't have a clue what they want in a partner. They think they want someone nice, kind, and sensitive, but then fall for a jerk (I'm generalizing and exaggerating a little here).

If you truly believe this, I would recommend an experiment for you.

1. Find 10 women (unmarried, single, and looking for a relationship).
2. Ask them what they look for in a man.
3. Wait and see who their next boyfriend is.
4. Compare the results of 2 and 3.

I think you'll be surprised by the differences between what women think they want, and what they actually choose when the time comes.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I agree with Cyrus on almost everything he says, and it's more or less the same approach I have when dating.

 

[Evo]

I'd have to say Moonbear, myself, and several other women that I've gotten to know here mean what they say and act according to what they say.

I loathe "bad boy" types and will NOT date one. I will not tolerate a man being a jerk to me. My history of dumping men without notice if they display any discourteous traits speaks for itself. My two girls also will not tolerate such treatment and both look for really "nice" guys to date. My oldest is currently in a relationship with one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, the youngest is "available". But she has always dated super nice boys.

Anyone that allows themselves to be mistreated or that mistreats others have self esteem issues.

I wouldn't call what Cyrus does "mistreating" anyone. I do find it curious that he thinks someone honestly talking about themselves would be boring. Yes, there are boring people. I've been called boring. I've been called fascinating. I guess the ones that thought I was fascinating were boring.

I have to admit that while I would be put off by someone bragging about themselves, if I found out that the man was feeding me a line of BS about himself for whatever reason, I would cut him off.

 

[rewebster]

It seems a lot of the differences in 'observations' among posters seems to stem from the initial point of 'what, where, why'-----are you looking for a XXXX, going out to the XXXX, to get XXX?

if you're going to the bars to get laid, that's one LCD (lowest common denominator);

and, are you looking in a common stomping ground for a mate (life partner)?

if you're personally (personality wise, mature enough) not ready for a 'good' mate, chances are, you won't find one.

If you're looking for something specific, (a rich mate, a smart mate, an athletic mate, etc.), it may be better to look at specific 'meeting grounds' for that type. If you have one 'more major qualifying factor' , say, for example, some women want only men that are very successful and rich, there's head games that go along with what made them that way. If a guy is looking for a woman is 'fun', her definition of 'fun' will still be different than yours.

Some people seem to be still playing around;

and, some seem to know, at least, from their own maturity level, what they want.

 

[Cyrus]

I'd have to say Moonbear, myself, and several other women that I've gotten to know here mean what they say and act according to what they say.

I loathe "bad boy" types and will NOT date one. I will not tolerate a man being a jerk to me. My history of dumping men without notice if they display any discourteous traits speaks for itself. My two girls also will not tolerate such treatment and both look for really "nice" guys to date. My oldest is currently in a relationship with one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, the youngest is "available". But she has always dated super nice boys.

Anyone that allows themselves to be mistreated or that mistreats others have self esteem issues.

I wouldn't call what Cyrus does "mistreating" anyone. I do find it curious that he thinks someone honestly talking about themselves would be boring. Yes, there are boring people. I've been called boring. I've been called fascinating. I guess the ones that thought I was fascinating were boring.

I have to admit that while I would be put off by someone bragging about themselves, if I found out that the man was feeding me a line of BS about himself for whatever reason, I would cut him off.

Well, the thing is when I'm talking to someone in a bar, I don't care about the answers to the quesitons I ask. I am only ask the questions to be playful, tease them, and poke fun at them. If I were to honestly walk up to someone and say hi, bla ba bla tell me about yourself. Bla bla bla, it would be so boring. And if someone I am talking to does this (male or female), I'll let them know they are boring me. I didnt go to a bar to hear your lifes story. I just want to have fun talking and interacting with people.

My friend and I have had that 'nice guy' walk up to use and start talking, and talking, and talking. Hey guys. What bar did you go to? Were there a lot of girls there? What bars do you like going to? My friend and I are looking at each other like, who the hell is this guy. Why won't he shut up and get lost? I mean, he's being honest and open in his communication. But no one wants to hear it.

(I think the problem moonbear, is that you are taking what I am saying for just meeting and interacting with people socially, and extracting it to a serious relationship. Which is NOT what I am saying at all).

 

[rewebster]

Well, the thing is when I'm talking to someone in a bar, I don't care about the answers to the quesitons I ask. Im only ask the questions to be playful, tease them, and poke fun at them. If I were to honestly walk up to someone and say hi, bla ba bla tell me about yourself. Bla bla bla, it would be so boring. And if someone I am talking to does this (male or female), I'll let them know they are boring me. I didnt go to a bar to hear your lifes story. I just want to have fun talking and interacting with people.

My friend and I have had that 'nice guy' walk up to use and start talking, and talking, and talking. Hey guys. What bar did you go to? Were there a lot of girls there? What bars do you like going to? My friend and I are looking at each other like, who the hell is this guy. Why won't he shut up and get lost? I mean, he's being honest and open in his communication. But no one wants to hear it.

(I think the problem moonbear, is that you are taking what I am saying for just meeting and interacting with people socially, and extracting it to a serious relationship. Which is NOT what I am saying at all).

so, you're looking for people that poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are from their viewpoint?

 

[Cyrus]

so, you're looking for people that poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are from their viewpoint?

What? ......I honestly think you have not had a bar conversation before, or you'd understand what I'm talking about. Have you not noticed the things Jason says about his conversations are nearly the same as what I say? Its because he's been in bars and know's what people talk about in them. Its just stupid chit chat so people can relax, unwind and have some fun.

 

[rewebster]

I've been to bars----don't you understand the question?---I can re-phrase if I have to

 

[Cyrus]

I've been to bars----don't you understand the question?---I can re-phrase if I have to

Your question makes no sense. I can't answer something that does not make sense.

 

[rewebster]

Your question makes no sense. I can't answer something that does not make sense.

When you go to the bars, do you find those people interesting that poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are?

 

[Cyrus]

When you go to the bars, do you find those people interesting that poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are?

Again, your question is fundamentally wrong. I don't know why you are using the phrase 'poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are'. You're making it sound as if were sitting there trying to insult each other or something, which isn't the case. The way you pose the question just isnt right.

So again, I can't answer your question.

Perhaps I should give you an example to make things clearer. One girl was giving me a hard time because I told her I am from DC. But she said "no your not, you live in maryland, and you go to school in maryland. Sounds like your from maryland to me." I busted her chops earlier, and now she was busting mine. MUCH more fun talking to her than another girl that would have been, 'oh you live in maryland, I see ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz'.

 

[Evo]

Ah, to be young and in a bar.

Things have changed from when I went to bars. I met my first husband in a bar. I asked him where he lived and it wasn't too far from me. I asked him where he worked and he said a contractor at NASA, he was into photogrpahy, the conversation just kept flowing... We talked all night, and before we left he asked me if I'd like to go out to dinner the following weekend. I said I'd love to and we did.

 

[rewebster]

Again, your question is fundamentally wrong. I don't know why you are using the phrase 'poke fun at you, and tease you for you being who you are'. You're making it sound as if were sitting there trying to insult each other or something, which isn't the case. The way you pose the question just isnt right.

So again, I can't answer your question.
Perhaps I should give you an example to make things clearer. One girl was giving me a hard time because I told her I am from DC. But she said "no your not, you live in maryland, and you go to school in maryland. Sounds like your from maryland to me." I busted her chops earlier, and now she was busting mine. MUCH more fun talking to her than another girl that would have been, 'oh you live in maryland, I see ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz'.

I can't understand that you don't understand the question--I copied it almost word for word from your post:

Well, the thing is when I'm talking to someone in a bar, I don't care about the answers to the quesitons I ask. I am only ask the questions to be playful, tease them, and poke fun at them.

 

[Cyrus]

I can't understand that you don't understand the question--I copied it almost word for word from your post:

Because you added 'for who you are', and I don't tease people 'for who they are'. That little 'for who they are' makes a HUGE difference. So, again I still can't answer your question the way its worded.