Is There a Double Standard in Dating Expectations for Men and Women?

[rootX]

You're absolutely right. I am not in any place to tell anyone they don't have balls.

But if you care, do you refer to someone as a sandwich?

You will get this thread locked!

 

[whitay]

You're right I probably will get this thread locked. So be it. It is far from the topic.

Cyrus:

I'll be completely honest, even though I'm going to try spicing things up, I'm tired of the same woman

Eating peanut butter & jelly everyday gets old!

have you tried the Elvis variety of it?

Dear Lord, I don't know what that is! Explain, please.

http://qbert.aminus3.com/image/2007-06-08.html

That's a heart attack in a bun.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I really don't see it. Or rather it's rare, and when it happens, we all tell her to just dump the jerk, which usually happens soon enough. Do men really tell each other this is the way to get a woman? No wonder women spend so much time complaining about all the jerks they meet. Of course, you reap what you sow. If you treat women like crap, they'll treat you like crap too. That's not a good way to develop a decent relationship.

I have had a few guys say such things but I have had even more women say them to me. I'm also not necessarily meaning that they all treat women like crap but in such a way as to make them think that they need to work to keep hold of them. Most men don't do these things because they were told to by others but because it honestly works. 'Nice Guys' rarely get dates and tend to get walked all over and dumped while 'Bad Boys' tend to get dates all the time and usually are the ones doing the dumping. Most people rarely develope decent relationships.

I'd have to say Moonbear, myself, and several other women that I've gotten to know here mean what they say and act according to what they say.

I would say that you and Moonie and the vast majority of PF women are not the 'average' woman and may not even often mix with 'average' women very often. Is it really very hard for you to believe that intelligent analytical minded men who regularly come into contact with 'the average woman' in social/courting/dating situations might know what they are talking about?

I loathe "bad boy" types and will NOT date one. I will not tolerate a man being a jerk to me. My history of dumping men without notice if they display any discourteous traits speaks for itself. My two girls also will not tolerate such treatment and both look for really "nice" guys to date. My oldest is currently in a relationship with one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, the youngest is "available". But she has always dated super nice boys.

And I doubt that you and your daughters are very average at all. Most women do like bad boys, even those that say they don't (I'm not including you or your daughters in any of what I am saying here). Most of the intelligent and independant (and rare) women I have met that actually do prefer 'nice guys' usually wind up dominating them and walking all over them. Most of the guys get fed up and leave or lash out and the few that will actually take it are often eventually deemed too weak and boring and get dumped.

 

[rootX]

You're right I probably will get this thread locked. So be it. It is far from the topic.

Cyrus:

I agree but those are entertaining

And, if you say something not nice, he gets mad.. everyone gets heated ==> thread locked!

Nothing comes out of that...

 

[Cyrus]

You're right I probably will get this thread locked. So be it. It is far from the topic.

Cyrus:

I have no idea what you are talking about...

 

[JasonRox]

Bla, insecurity in a woman is a huge turn-off for me. When girls try to pull that kind of crap I tell them exactly what they don't want to hear. Does this make me look fat? Yes. Are my eyes pretty? No. Don't ask me these stupid questions...they have no point and are signs of insecurity. Now, she should stop and think: if you were fat or had ugly eyes do you really think I'd be sitting here spending my time with you? No, I wouldnt.

Well, no one likes to keep score. But then again, unless you want to be used you better keep mental note. I wouldn't know about the expecations though, because usually I'm the one with much, much higher expecations and I make them very clear. Well, people do go out of their way and do nice things for others, but that's usually after they get to know them pretty well and have determined this person is worth going out of their way. But the key is they have to know you pretty well. If all she knows is that you will run through hoops for her all day long, she ant going to do squat from the goodness of her heart for you -ever.

Haha, I just told my girl yesterday that the "Am I pretty?" questions are annoying and should stop.

 

[JasonRox]

I'll be completely honest, even though I'm going to try spicing things up, I'm tired of the same woman

Eating peanut butter & jelly everyday gets old!

Try open relationship.

I will never get married or anything. The only time I would consider marriage is the girl is very open, confident, secure, independent and so on. (That's rare.) My girl thought she was but it turned out it was just her figment of imagination because she was always going out with lame guys.

 

[GeorginaS]

Cyus posted: Bla, insecurity in a woman is a huge turn-off for me. When girls try to pull that kind of crap I tell them exactly what they don't want to hear. Does this make me look fat? Yes. Are my eyes pretty? No. Don't ask me these stupid questions...they have no point and are signs of insecurity. Now, she should stop and think: if you were fat or had ugly eyes do you really think I'd be sitting here spending my time with you? No, I wouldnt.

Well, no one likes to keep score. But then again, unless you want to be used you better keep mental note. I wouldn't know about the expecations though, because usually I'm the one with much, much higher expecations and I make them very clear. Well, people do go out of their way and do nice things for others, but that's usually after they get to know them pretty well and have determined this person is worth going out of their way. But the key is they have to know you pretty well. If all she knows is that you will run through hoops for her all day long, she ant going to do squat from the goodness of her heart for you -ever.

Haha, I just told my girl yesterday that the "Am I pretty?" questions are annoying and should stop.

That you two seem to relish being rude and mean to women is a little disturbing. There's nothing wrong with asking for a little reassurance or confidence boost from your partner. That's one reason they're there, to perk you up when you might not feel your strongest. And they're there for you on that count too. Allowing yourself to be vulnerable in front of someone you care about is paramount to a healthy mutual relationship. There has to be someone on the planet you can let your guard down around. Evidently it's not either of you two because it seems you can't be trusted with other people's feelings.

 

[Jordan Joab]

Ha! In the time this thread was inactive I began fixing things at home. So far, so good.

 

[Evo]

Ha! In the time this thread was inactive I began fixing things at home. So far, so good.

Well, that's very nice to hear, I wish you luck.

I was going to close this thread, but maybe there might be some good use for it after all.

 

[Cyrus]

That you two seem to relish being rude and mean to women is a little disturbing. There's nothing wrong with asking for a little reassurance or confidence boost from your partner. That's one reason they're there, to perk you up when you might not feel your strongest. And they're there for you on that count too. Allowing yourself to be vulnerable in front of someone you care about is paramount to a healthy mutual relationship. There has to be someone on the planet you can let your guard down around. Evidently it's not either of you two because it seems you can't be trusted with other people's feelings.

To be honest, no. Its just extremely annoying when a person (male or female) has insecurities and bring them up all the time. When I talk to my friends I don't ask them 'am I a good friend', 'do you like me', 'do I look good today'...gimme a break. Why is it because she's a woman I have to tell her constantly, don't worry you look good, that does not make you fat.

If she looks good, I'll say randomly to her she looks very nice. But I'm not going to play to her insecurities. Asking the kinds of questions jason and I are talking about really not about someone 'not being their strongest'. Those are really shallow questions that should not even be asked. Being vulnerable infront of someone is fine, so long as its a legitimate issue. I don't see confidence boosters as legitimate. A girl I met from another country made the comment to me that the girls here (in the USA) are so pretty and she feels ugly. I just said...umm, okay? What a dumb thing to ask me. Had she said, 'im feeling sad right now' I would have tried to cheer her up. But the way she phrased it, I am not going to play along.

Male example:

There was a guy in my class last summer who was from out of state. He would complain and complain about this one area of maryland he worked at in a restaurant. This area is ritzy and very nice. He said "I hate that place and all the people there". I asked him why? He said he worked there and all the people are rude and don't tip well. He would always make this off hand comments about people he saw better off than him showing his insecurity. I got fed up with him one time and told him, "maybe they would tip you more if you didnt act so damn insecure and childish around these people".

Im just curious why you would think its appropriate for a woman to ask her partner if 'she looks cute' ? I really don't like people with low self-esteem.

 

[Monique]

Im just curious why you would think its appropriate for a woman to ask her partner if 'she looks cute' ? I really don't like people with low self-esteem.

It doesn't need to have anything to do with low self-esteem, if a cat comes up to you and wants to be be petted you don't tell it to get lost, do you?

 

[Cyrus]

It doesn't need to have anything to do with low self-esteem, if a cat comes up to you and wants to be be petted you don't tell it to get lost, do you?

Whats that got to do with a woman asking vane questions?

Also, to the ladies. What Jason and I have said also applies to you. I've had girls complain to me about their old boyfriends asking them the same stupid kinds of questions. Guys asking girls: "do you love me?" "do you like me?" "im not good enough for you".

Would you like your partner constantly asking you "do you love me?" If I were a girl I would tell him to stop asking and get some balls.

 

[LowlyPion]

Being vulnerable infront of someone is fine, so long as its a legitimate issue.

So you don't think that women that may be from birth bombarded with valuing their appearances and maybe even measuring their self worth in some cases solely on that - pity the poor girls on the beauty pageant track - and I might add as I recall you yourself having said that you value women as partners on first finding them "attractive" - that how they "look" would not be a "legitimate issue" ?

As a partner do you see it as your task to communicate your appreciation for the other person or merely to receive theirs for you?

 

[Monique]

Whats that got to do with a woman asking vane questions?

Everyone needs a little loving.

Also, to the ladies. What Jason and I have said also applies to you. I've had girls complain to me about their old boyfriends asking them the same stupid kinds of questions. Guys asking girls: "do you love me?" "do you like me?" "im not good enough for you".

Would you like your partner constantly asking you "do you love me?" If I were a girl I would tell him to stop asking and get some balls.

It's the way the question is being asked. If it is a desperate question, then something is wrong in the relationship. The person is either too insecure, or the other person is not giving enough feedback. If it is a nonchalant question you give an honest answer and a hug (or the equivalent of a little loving).

 

[Cyrus]

So you don't think that women that may be from birth bombarded with valuing their appearances and maybe even measuring their self worth in some cases solely on that - pity the poor girls on the beauty pageant track - and I might add as I recall you yourself having said that you value women as partners on first finding them "attractive" - that how they "look" would not be a "legitimate issue" ?

As a partner do you see it as your task to communicate your appreciation for the other person or merely to receive theirs for you?

Oh gimme a break. Dont you think men are supposed to be fit and have muscles also? Men also have pressure to look good. I know quite a lot of guys at the gym I used to go to that would take steroids to look big.

This is such a sad argument.

 

[Cyrus]

Everyone needs a little loving.

Well, you and I are different. Thats fine, but personally I don't 'give lovin' out of someones desperation.

It's the way the question is being asked. If it is a desperate question, then something is wrong in the relationship. The person is either too insecure, or the other person is not giving enough feedback. If it is a nonchalant question you give an honest answer and a hug (or the equivalent of a little loving).

I agree, with the exception that if its a nonchalant question, I'll give an opposite answer to what the person wants to hear (Since its a stupid question).

If I tell you, 'you look nice today' its because I mean it. Not because I want to cheer you up due to your low self-esteem. Otherwise its cheap and meaningless for me to say 'you look nice'.

I mean honestly, its like having a say 'tell me you love me'... If I was a girl and a guy said that to me, I'd tell him no. No, I dont. Because you are too insecure.

Im just curious, does your boyfriend or any past boyfriends you had say these kinds of things to you? And what was your response, but what were you really thinking in the back of your mind when you said it.

 

[LowlyPion]

... I know quite a lot of guys at the gym I used to go to that would take steroids to look big.

This is such a sad argument.

These "men" of course have no insecurities or identity issues? They don't need to be told they look trim and fit? Manly men don't need that kind of reinforcement?

Why again are they at the gym?

As to placing value on looks what do you suppose the ratio is of male beauty pageants to female?

 

[Moonbear]

Im just curious, does your boyfriend or any past boyfriends you had say these kinds of things to you? And what was your response, but what were you really thinking in the back of your mind when you said it.

Yes, my boyfriend and I say these things to each other often. Though, admittedly, it probably sounds a bit nauseatingly cute, but we only do it when we're alone together, not when others are around to be nauseated. It's fun. I think an insecure person wouldn't ask such a question, because they'd be afraid the answer would be "no." We say it because we know the answer is "yes." Though, yeah, we do sometimes answer sarcastically too, because we both have a sarcastic sense of humor. For example, if my boyfriend asks if I love him, I might answer, "Most of the time," or "Nah, I only hang around with you for the sex." But, when I say things like that, it's totally obvious I'm joking. Of course, we also have a thing where if one of us says, "I love you," instead of being cliche and automatically answering "I love you" back, we sometimes answer, "I know." And follow that up with more nauseatingly cute, "How do you know?"

I better stop, I can sense Cyrus turning green around the gills with this.

 

[WarPhalange]

Oh gimme a break. Dont you think men are supposed to be fit and have muscles also? Men also have pressure to look good.

No. We don't. Not nearly as much.

When's the last time you saw an ugly chick with a hot guy? Not very often. Whereas ugly guys, such as business men, doctors, politicians, rock stars, athletes, etc. get hot women all the time.

You can say guys have a lot more pressure to be "successful" in life, but that's a much more objective thing than "looking pretty". You don't have to ask someone "am I successful?", you just have to look at your bank account and connections.

 

[rewebster]

These "men" of course have no insecurities or identity issues? They don't need to be told they look trim and fit? Manly men don't need that kind of reinforcement?

Why again are they at the gym?

As to placing value on looks what do you suppose the ratio is of male beauty pageants to female?

is this what you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

 

[LowlyPion]

is this what you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Not exactly.

I guess what I was exploring was communication in a relationship and how one might value another's feelings and how one might choose to respond to and nurture the other.

To the extent that projection is some manifestation of unhealthy narcissism I suppose projection might be on point.

 

[Cyrus]

These "men" of course have no insecurities or identity issues? They don't need to be told they look trim and fit? Manly men don't need that kind of reinforcement?

Why again are they at the gym?

As to placing value on looks what do you suppose the ratio is of male beauty pageants to female?

I have no idea what you're talking about. When did I say they don't have insecurities or identity issues? You're not reading what I am typing.

 

[Cyrus]

Yes, my boyfriend and I say these things to each other often. Though, admittedly, it probably sounds a bit nauseatingly cute, but we only do it when we're alone together, not when others are around to be nauseated. It's fun. I think an insecure person wouldn't ask such a question, because they'd be afraid the answer would be "no." We say it because we know the answer is "yes." Though, yeah, we do sometimes answer sarcastically too, because we both have a sarcastic sense of humor. For example, if my boyfriend asks if I love him, I might answer, "Most of the time," or "Nah, I only hang around with you for the sex." But, when I say things like that, it's totally obvious I'm joking. Of course, we also have a thing where if one of us says, "I love you," instead of being cliche and automatically answering "I love you" back, we sometimes answer, "I know." And follow that up with more nauseatingly cute, "How do you know?"

I better stop, I can sense Cyrus turning green around the gills with this.

No, I strongly disagree with this statement. A SECURE person does not have to ask 'do you love me'. If you can't tell if someone loves you or not and have to resort to asking, somethings not right.

My question to you is this. Ask yourself, honestly, WHY would he ask you this? Obviously you do love him. Why does he need to ask you this, AT ALL? Instead, he could say 'I love YOU'. Why does he need to ask you if you love him? If you said I love you last time he asked, chances are unless something major happened between the two of you the answer is still the same.

I agree with the very last part of your post, which is what I am saying above with the 'I love you'.

Asking 'do you love me?' is like saying, 'hi, I am modest'...

 

[LowlyPion]

I have no idea what you're talking about. When did I say they don't have insecurities or identity issues? You're not reading what I am typing.

What is your point then?

It's a legitimate identity issue for men but not for women?

This would then be your identification of an inequality between men and women?

 

[Cyrus]

No. We don't. Not nearly as much.

When's the last time you saw an ugly chick with a hot guy? Not very often. Whereas ugly guys, such as business men, doctors, politicians, rock stars, athletes, etc. get hot women all the time.

You can say guys have a lot more pressure to be "successful" in life, but that's a much more objective thing than "looking pretty". You don't have to ask someone "am I successful?", you just have to look at your bank account and connections.

Fair enough. That is a valid point in all respects.

 

[Cyrus]

What is your point then?

It's a legitimate identity issue for men but not for women?

This would then be your identification of an inequality between men and women?

What? Maybe I am talking in chinese, but my point was that its a problem for BOTH men and women...Jeeshhhhhh... come on.

You're doing a really bad job following along here.

 

[lisab]

No, I strongly disagree with this statement. A SECURE person does not have to ask 'do you love me'. If you can't tell if someone loves you or not and have to resort to asking, somethings not right.

My question to you is this. Ask yourself, honestly, WHY would he ask you this? Obviously you do love him. Why does he need to ask you this, AT ALL? Instead, he could say 'I love YOU'. Why does he need to ask you if you love him? If you said I love you last time he asked, chances are unless something major happened between the two of you the answer is still the same.

I agree with the very last part of your post, which is what I am saying above with the 'I love you'.

Asking 'do you love me?' is like saying, 'hi, I am modest'...

It's just lovers' banter. When you're in love - well, mostly just early in the relationship - this sort of talk electrifies the pleasure center in your brain. It isn't for reassurance - it's only for pleasure.

 

[Cyrus]

It's just lovers' banter. When you're in love - well, mostly just early in the relationship - this sort of talk electrifies the pleasure center in your brain. It isn't for reassurance - it's only for pleasure.

Im not talking about playfull 'do you love me' banter. I am talking about guys that ask this question - seriously to their gfs.

The same way girls say 'do I look pretty' and mean it because they have no self confidence.

I have one friend who let's his gf run him around. He's literally her b****. I am like man, she says jump and you say how high. Its really pathetic. I know he's the kind of guy to say things like that to her.

If she would playfully ask me 'do you love me', I playfully say 'no, I dont'. But I never say I am just joking afterwards.

Side: To clear things up. When I give reverse answers. I don't say 'no I dont' in a mean tone. I playfully say the opposite of what she wants to hear. But I never clear it up by saying afterwards 'oh, I am just kidding'. I just leave it as an open ended statement.

 

[Cyrus]

It's just lovers' banter. When you're in love - well, mostly just early in the relationship - this sort of talk electrifies the pleasure center in your brain. It isn't for reassurance - it's only for pleasure.

My pleasure center is between my legs...HIYOOOOOOOOOOOO