Is There a New Theorem in Limits Without Accumulation Points?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of limits in the context of points that are not accumulation points of a function's domain. Participants explore whether a theorem can be formulated regarding limits at such points and the implications of different definitions of limits.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a possible theorem stating that if a is not an accumulation point of the domain of a function, then the function has a limit at a.
  • Another participant argues that for a function to have a limit at a, a must be an accumulation point of the domain, suggesting a rephrasing of the original statement to indicate that a does not have a limit at a if it is not an accumulation point.
  • A further contribution questions the usefulness of the proposed definition, stating that if a is not an accumulation point, then the limit could be any number, making the concept of "the limit at a" ambiguous.
  • One participant distinguishes between two cases when a is not an accumulation point: if a belongs to the domain of the function, the limit is equal to the function value at a; if a does not belong to the domain, the definition does not apply.
  • Another participant clarifies that the definition provided was intended to illustrate alternative definitions of limits that do not rely on accumulation points, suggesting that it could encompass a broader range of functions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the necessity of accumulation points for limits, with some supporting the idea that limits can exist at non-accumulation points and others contesting this view. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives on the validity of the proposed theorem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the definitions and assumptions regarding limits, particularly in relation to the role of accumulation points and the implications for functions defined on specific domains.

poutsos.A
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possible theorem in limits??

Is the following a possible theorem in limits??


If a is not an accumulation of the domain of...[tex]f:A\subseteq R\rightarrow R[/tex] then f has a limit over a
 
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On the contrary, in order for a function to have a limit at a, a MUST be an accumulation point of the domain!

Did you mean to write:
"If a is not an accumulation of the domain of...[tex]f:A\subseteq R\rightarrow R[/tex] then f does not have a limit at a"?
 


HallsofIvy said:
On the contrary, in order for a function to have a limit at a, a MUST be an accumulation point of the domain!

Did you mean to write:
"If a is not an accumulation of the domain of...[tex]f:A\subseteq R\rightarrow R[/tex] then f does not have a limit at a"?


Why can you not have a limit provided the definition of a limit of a function at a point is the following:


Let:

1) [tex]f:A\subseteq R\rightarrow R[/tex]

2) a is adherent to A ......

..........THEN we define.........

......limf(x)= m ,x----->a iff [tex]\forall \epsilon[\epsilon>0\rightarrow\exists r(r>0 ,\forall x( x\epsilon D(f)\wedge |x-a|<r\rightarrow |f(x)-m|<\epsilon))][/tex]

And in words :

......limf(x) = m ,x------->a iff given ε>0 there exists r>o such that if


...... xεD(f) & |x-a|<r then |f(x)-m|<ε..........

D(f)= domain of f
 


I don't see how that would be a very useful definition. Using that definition, if a is not an accumulation point of the domain of f, then "[itex]\lim_{x\rightarrow a} f(x)= L" is true for EVERY L. It would be incorrect to talk about "<b>the</b> limit at a" when every number is a limit at a.[/itex]
 


If a is not accumulation point of the domain of f then a is an isolation point and we have to consider two cases:

case 1: a belongs to the domain of f: in this case the said definition gives a limit for every function which is f(a)

case 2 a does not belong to the domain of f then a is not an inherent point of THE domain and the said definition is not applicable:


But that is not what i Had in mind. The theorem i had in mind to be proved is:

If a is not an accumulation point of the domain of the function:[tex]f:A\subseteq R\rightarrow R[/tex] then there exists m such that:


........given ε>0 there exists r>0 such that.......


......if xεA and 0<|x-a|<r then |f(x)-m|<ε.......
 


The above definition was given just to show that there can be definitions other than the usual one which uses the accumulation point .THE above definition covers awide range of functions
 

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