Is there a smallest wavetrain corresponding with photons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of wave packets in electromagnetic (EM) waves and their relationship to photons. Participants explore whether there is a smallest wave packet corresponding to photons, the nature of light in different media, and the implications of quantum mechanics on the speed of light in a medium versus a vacuum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether there is a smallest wave packet of EM waves corresponding to photons, with one suggesting that the smallest wave refers to the weakest intensity.
  • Others argue that there is no lower limit to wave intensity in either classical or quantum physics.
  • Participants discuss the concept of light as a superposition of incident waves and waves emitted by atoms in a medium, raising questions about the speed of light in different contexts.
  • There is a contention regarding the interpretation of photons as wave packets, with some asserting that photons are not classical wave packets but quantized energy portions.
  • One participant highlights the classical explanation for the apparent slowing of light in a medium, while another insists that a quantum explanation is more appropriate for the discussion.
  • Questions arise about the relationship between the speed of photons in a vacuum and their behavior in a medium, with references to concepts like effective mass and dispersion relations.
  • Some participants note that the discussion conflates classical and quantum perspectives, suggesting a need to clarify the distinction between them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the nature of wave packets, the behavior of light in media, and the appropriate frameworks (classical vs. quantum) for understanding these phenomena. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on the key questions posed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes limitations such as the lack of clarity on definitions of wave packets, the dependence on classical versus quantum interpretations, and unresolved questions regarding the implications of quantum mechanics on light behavior in media.

  • #31
Of course, I agree. The problem is that even in textbooks often "photons" are used in hand-waving arguments, particularly in GR textbooks, where what is in fact meant is the eikonal approximation of Maxwell's equations in "curved spacetime". Of course that's a tremendous shortcut in calculations.

What's always wrong with this "naive photon picture" is the assumption that "photons" were localized massless particles. So if you envoke the "naive photon picture" you are always better off when thinking in terms of em. waves than in terms of massless point particles.

Field quantization, is of course, not only needed when you deal with Fock states. E.g., you need it also for thermal radiation. It's not by chance that the entire discovery of quantum theory historically came from Planck's discovery how to theoretically describe thermal (black-body) radiation!
 

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